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these first x2 are esculi, I didn't realize how bronzed green they were until I saw them, the books don't seem to capture it somehow....





But what do you think these are, ??? - ilicis or acaciae.. or esculi ??





any comments appreciated... Guy? help (again!!!)

Esculi occurs in thousands in southern Var, but always a clear brown ground colour - I've never seen them looking even slightly green, but in different localities.... where did you see them? Are you sure this is not an ageing effect or camera angle? Did they look green when viewed not through the lens?

The last two are ilicis. The irregular hindwing white line (the line in esculi is fairly straight) and cleaner black edging are strong clues. The white line usually doesn't extend to the forewing in esculi, or if it does, it is quite faint. Ilicis red marks usually have more distinct black external edging, just about visible on these worn specimens, and the shape of the red marks is another pointer (esculi are usually thinner). The colour of the red marks is different, most obvious in fresh specimens; esculi is usually a stronger deeper red.

The hindwing marginal white line is also stronger in ilicis.

Like many species, these pointers can vary, and sometimes it takes a combination of factors.

I totally agree with Roger - and it is striking how all the points he makes add up to a distinct jizz.

I can also confirm that when I visited Roger in the Var in the summer of 2004 there were quite literally thousands of esculi and their corpses were covering eddy pools in a stream like water lilies on a pond!! I have never seen anything like it. Southern white admirals were also gathering in their dozens. Roger is not exaggerating!

Guy

Thanks to both of you. These were all taken 20k south of Montelimar. The majority were as you point out, quite tatty, but my impression at the time was that each esculi I saw, and there were lots, had this bronzy green sheen, depending on the viewing angle. It was more striking away from the camera than through it!!
I didn't really differentiate between these 2 species whilst I was there, or the tatty spini I saw, & I'm kicking myself for not being more observant!