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I was in Slovenia at the beginning of this month at an altitude just over 800 metres. I took the attached pictures there and have gone through a number of potential species but am still not sure. I'm sure that some of them are Heath Fritillary, but there might be some different ones as well, e.g. False Heath and Nickerl's. Anybody got any ideas please?

Boy - this is one of the hardest ID posts ever! I don't have any magic answers, but can provide some input. Here goes:

For the images you've provided, and location information, we're choosing between:

Knapweed Fritillary
False Heath Fritillary
Assmann's Fritillary
Nickerl's Fritillary
Heath Fritillary
Asian Fritillary
Cynthia's Fritillary

I think the last 2 can be ruled out, even on a cursory glance. Based on the underside markings of the first 2, I'd also rule out Assmann's and Nickerl's for these (there is normally a slight colour difference in the 2 outermost cells on the hindwing underside.

Knapweed Fritillary has a distinctive row of orange cells on the hindwing upperside, bordered by rows of paler cells. This rules out 4 and 6. And the underside has something similar - although the same cells have darker-coloured centres - ruling out 1 and 2.

False Heath Fritillary has a characteristic multi-coloured arrangement in the first row of coloured cells in from edge of the the hindwing underside. This rules out 1 and 2.

So this leaves:

1. Heath
2. Heath
3. Heath, Knapweed, False Heath, Assmann's, Nickerl's
4. Heath, False Heath, Assmann's, Nickerl's
5. Heath, Knapweed, False Heath, Assmann's, Nickerl's
6. Heath, False Heath, Assmann's, Nickerl's

My "default", by the way, would be Heath Fritillary, given its distribution and population.

Over to Guy

Cheers,

- Pete

Pete Eeles wrote:Boy - this is one of the hardest ID posts ever! I don't have any magic answers, but can provide some input. Here goes:

For the images you've provided, and location information, we're choosing between:

Knapweed Fritillary
False Heath Fritillary
Assmann's Fritillary
Nickerl's Fritillary
Heath Fritillary
Asian Fritillary
Cynthia's Fritillary

I think the last 2 can be ruled out, even on a cursory glance. Based on the underside markings of the first 2, I'd also rule out Assmann's and Nickerl's for these (there is normally a slight colour difference in the 2 outermost cells on the hindwing underside.

Knapweed Fritillary has a distinctive row of orange cells on the hindwing upperside, bordered by rows of paler cells. This rules out 4 and 6. And the underside has something similar - although the same cells have darker-coloured centres - ruling out 1 and 2.

False Heath Fritillary has a characteristic multi-coloured arrangement in the first row of coloured cells in from edge of the the hindwing underside. This rules out 1 and 2.

So this leaves:

1. Heath
2. Heath
3. Heath, Knapweed, False Heath, Assmann's, Nickerl's
4. Heath, False Heath, Assmann's, Nickerl's
5. Heath, Knapweed, False Heath, Assmann's, Nickerl's
6. Heath, False Heath, Assmann's, Nickerl's

My "default", by the way, would be Heath Fritillary, given its distribution and population.

Over to Guy

Cheers,

- Pete

Thanks for responding so quickly. The strange thing is that there seemed to be two different behavioural patterns. On a slightly lower site they seemed to spend half the time with the underwings exposed, in the other site (about 50 metres away) the frits there resolutely refused to fold their wings and only showed me topside. That's when I first started thinking there might be two types. In the hotel that evening I looked on the internet and went through most of the species you named and changed my mind 100 times.

I did the same again when I got back home - I spent a few hours this time and went through the same ritual. I showed them to a friend who's more knowledgeable than me, and he went through the same process and changed his mind 50 times at least.

I'm interested to see you came up with most of the same candidates as us, although you included Knapweed which neither of us considered.

This was a superb, hidden, little place. Besides these I showed here (I have more pictures of the same ones) there were countless Arran Browns, Silver-Washed Fritillary, Pearl Heath, Clouded Yellow, Mazarine Blue, 6 spot Burnets, a really bright yellow one that I only caught a glimpse of but might have been another Clouded Yellow.

Once again, thanks for starting the ball rolling.

Simon

Mellicta is a minefield, because the intraspecific variation in markings is often greater than the interspecific variation!! In general, you need to have both upperside and underside views and a close-up of the palpi, where the distribution of orange and black is a good indicator of certain species.

Pete is absolutely right that the first two cannot be Nickerl's or Assmann's, as the underside hindwing marginal line in both these species is said to be significantly darker (yellow) than the lunules inside them. That said, it may also be significantly darker in heath fritillary, so this is only useful when absent. They are also probably not false heath, though some forms of this have similar markings to heath fritillary and it is also a very variable butterfly. I go for heath fritillary.

All the individuals are Mellicta/(Melitaea), so Cynthia's and Asian fritillary (both of which I am familiar with in Switzerland) are ruled out. None of them are knapweed fritillaries, which is also very characteristic when you know it.

For the last four upperside shots I would consider heath, Nickerl's and Assmann's as possible candidates (with some variety of false heath I have not come across yet as a longshot). Your butterflies are mostly rather regularly patterned, which is unhelpful because it leaves all three in (many heath fritillaries have rather irregular, broken bands on the forewing). However, the rather thicker branding towards the outer margins of the forewing on veins one and two inclines me towards heath fritillary (this is most marked in the darkest one, which is otherwise the strongest candidate for Assmann's).

I know only one person who has successfully identified Nickerl's and Assmann's with confidence and that is the indefatigable Matt Rowlings. He did it using Lafranchis's method of examining the genitalia of the living butterfly - which is probably the only truly reliable way. If you are not squeamish, go to his page on distinguishing these species, with close-ups of their little bottoms. He assures me the insects are entirely unharmed, though I suspect they might feel a little put out by the procedure.

Matt's page on the genitalia is here:

http://www.eurobutterflies.com/species_ ... italia.htm

The separate species page for Assmann's is here:

http://www.eurobutterflies.com/species_ ... martis.htm

He doesn't seem to have put up a page for Nickerl's yet - before the Lafranchis revelation he and I spent hours in the field here in Switzerland trying to string Nickerl's fritillaries out of the infinite variety of heath fritillaries there seem to be here. We never succeeded.

I'll make Matt aware of this post and he may be able to help, having seen all these species in the wild (in Romania).

Guy

PS - Even the butterflies find it difficult.

These shots show a false heath fritillary absolutely intent on getting his way with a rather dark marsh fritillary...





Guy

This does seem tricky. Maybe cause butterflies don't have the best sight, anything that looks very similar to them, they would try it on? Like the Brown Argus and Nothern Brown Argus?

Fritillaries are sometimes tricky. Smaller ones anyway.

Thanks for everyone's help in this. I think I suspected that Heath might be involved but wondered about another one as the darker ones seemed just plain stubborn in not showing their undersides.