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That sounds like a diversion well worth making then Mark!

If I remember rightly, Guy had a second brood Green Hairstreak last year....

Lee

Hi Lee
Yes indeed , Lee , on looking at the area on Google Map later , the meadow was the first of a series of meadows which stretched down ( or up ) to a rear entrance into Wild Park NR . Well worth exploring in more detail next year .

In general I think isolated 2nd brood examples are not of great significance . Much more important was the 2nd brood Dingy Skipper emergence in Sussex this year on a wide and large scale . Perhaps a bit surprising but of equal significance was the complete lack of an emergence of 2nd brood Grizzled Skippers . Exactly what the significance of all this is one for the experts .

Slightly off this tack - inspired by recent photographs, I nipped out to the land behind my workplace at lunchtime (albeit it was lovely and sunny for a change) and found 9 Red Admirals on just one buddleia. Following nothing more than what I'd call a 'scrappy path' that goes down over the local railway line I found another 5 Red Admirals, about 4 Commas, 8 Speckled Woods, a few Whites and one Holly Blue.

I didn't bother getting any pictures but it was great to see butterflies still about - many of the Red Admirals and Commas were absolutely fresh (one of the Commas was an almost unreal shade of red-orange). It's funny sometimes to follow a very poor tarmac road (single file) like this and find more butterflies down such a lane than you could see over the nearby wild-field meadows. The number of flowers (Buddleia, Ivy, Hemp Agrinomy, Common Fleabane, Bindweed, Bramble - flowers and fruits) in such a small and scubby bit of land is amazing. No doubt some of these wild-flowers are spread initially by the railway line. Amazing also what a bit of sunshine can do to bring out the butterflies - shame we haven't had more during the late Summer .

Michael

Re Michael's post above:
How many butterflies.... ..and how many species...?

6 Red Admirals, 1 Speckled Wood and a Comma?

Sussex Kipper wrote: .....this is exactly how tiny, irregular broods manifest themselves, and just because there has only been one sighting it doesn't mean there is only one butterfly present. And that the data you have to hand suggests that it's suspicious they have only appeared at one site - perfectly normal. Duke of Burgundy has double-brooded on single sites in recent years. It all depends on local conditions, as does everything in the butterfly world! .....
Neil

Thanks Neil, this all suggests that, quite reasonably, irregular broods are generally governed by local conditions - temperature/length of development time available. I just wondered whether anyone knew of any other 'decision'-mechanisms that might be at work, such as that found with the hutchinsoni Comma?

With respect to Mark Senior's later comment about the lack of 2nd-brood Grizzlers, I've heard that they are more temperature-sensitive than other butterflies in their spring emergence, so despite the advantage of an early spring emergence, the relatively cool summer hasn't provoked them in to a second brood anywhere?

Rob S
strictly an enthusiast

PS - the Hockley Woods warden hasn't had any reports of 2nd brood Heath Frits.

Spot-on, David! And the prize is...
Amazing to see at least a dozen RA's in this small sheltered place; and the darker orange of this Comma generation compared to the vivid summer brood I saw at the start of July.
Ivy here is the thing that attracts the most; it will be in-flower, somewhere in the cemetery, from now until November. It also attracts thousands of different flies, wasps and bees....
N

I didn't any way doubt the sighting or I would not have made the original post drawing attention to it. My scepticism was more around the orgin of the butterfly, fuelled by the coincidence of the "same site, same day" observation Rob made. Unfortunately, I'm a natural doubter, trained to be so in the job I do, where assessment of credibility is key. Apologies for letting it seep into this forum - I would be as pleased as anyone to see genuine unusual second broods being observed in any species.

Ironically, I was on the end of considerable scepticism myself a couple of years ago when reporting a second brood of Peacocks locally (caterpillars late August and emergence mid-September).

Dave

millerd wrote:I didn't any way doubt the sighting or I would not have made the original post drawing attention to it. My scepticism was more around the orgin of the butterfly, fuelled by the coincidence of the "same site, same day" observation Rob made. Unfortunately, I'm a natural doubter, trained to be so in the job I do, where assessment of credibility is key. Apologies for letting it seep into this forum - I would be as pleased as anyone to see genuine unusual second broods being observed in any species.

Ironically, I was on the end of considerable scepticism myself a couple of years ago when reporting a second brood of Peacocks locally (caterpillars late August and emergence mid-September).

Dave

Oh, I see ... a kind of 'Release Anniversary' each year. No that didn't occur to me! (I only pointed out the date to illustrate that a follow-up visit may not be worthwhile). I suppose it's possible, and would have been carried out by a more 'conscientious releaser', who had chosen an extant site. To me, there's nothing suspicious about it; taking on board what Neil has said and that there has been a larger partial second brood in Kent which has a stronger HF population and probably warmer micro-climate.

Rob

I completely missed the report from Kent, or I might not have commented the way I did. I would have tried to go and see them, in fact. I'd best keep quiet in future!

I missed the Kent HF tweet as well Dave, and no need to apologise about posting the sighting, I was on the brink of shouting about it. My branch loyalties take slight precedence with local sightings.
All the best
Rob

NickB wrote:Ivy here is the thing that attracts the most; it will be in-flower, somewhere in the cemetery, from now until November. It also attracts thousands of different flies, wasps and bees....N

Hi Nick,
sorry I'm too late to join in the competition I've got a lot of work to catch up on in the evenings now. But yes, there were also tons of flies and wasps around the Ivy yesterday as well. It's taken me a couple of years to spot the Ivy round my way (sounds stupid but it's true) and now I realise where I can see half of my local Holly Blues too. I did look at Google's Satellite map of Cambridge and of the Cemetery and I can see why it's such an important spot. In my local area I wonder sometimes if I am the only person that even notices the local butterflies. Not necessarily a bad thing, as long as the common ground is left alone.
Michael

Its worth keeping a look out for Ivy Bees, in flight from now until early November and spreading (especially in coastal areas), they look like a small honey bee. They have been about around Torquay for the past few days.

Hi Michael - I will try to get some more multi-butterfly shots.......

Will also keep a look-out for different-looking honey bees, Torbay Flyer, (but my bee-id skills are very limited ( ) to say the least!); with thousands of buzzing and flying things that may be a challenge too far!
I counted at least 20 RA's this morning - early-morning basking - some feeding on the Russian Vine; yes, even it does have it's uses! Talking to the dog-walkers in the Cemetery, the largest "stakeholder" (sic) group I meet, most seem oblivious to butterflies, even when they walk within feet of bushes containing a dozen or so. When I mention the butterflies, usually it is the classic, "I haven't seen many butterflies this year....". It is the same with the birds and mammals in there (though I do mention to dog-walkers that being accompanied by a top predator does limit their wildlife-spotting opportunities!). So those that spend the most time in there don't notice much at all and therefore, the importance of the site is lost on them
But at least Fido gets a walk...

a visit to Durlston country park today. meadow brown, small heath, common blue, small tortoiseshell and apparent movement of red admiral along the coast heading east, 23 in about 4 minutes showing no signs of stopping.

Chris

very sunny day on my post round in whitby, ellesmere port, saw half a dozen small tortoishells on peoples garden plants and a couple red admirals on fallen fruit and few whites and think it was a hedge brown

Lovely day in Swansea today. Sunny and quite warm at around 18C. No surprise that I saw both a Peacock and a Brimstone fluttering about the hedgerows opposite the windows.

With all the talk about extra broods, at High and Over, Seaford, today there were 3 3rd brood Wall Brown flying. Last year in Sussex only 2 3rd brood Wall were recorded and these were at Mill Hill. Maybe this summer was not so bad after all!! High and Over is one of the regular sites for the 3rd brood as it is south facing. Greenway Bank nearby is another site where the 3rd brood can show up in small numbers. On Greenway today there was several fresh Brown Argus seen but no Wall.

Didn't have my camera yesterday but nice if I did, saw these near my house (Small torts were in my garden feeding on dandilion flowers):

5 Small Tortoiseshell
1 Green-Veined White
2 Speckled Wood
2 Red Admiral
1 Small White
1 Large White