www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

Gruditch wrote:Getting permission to remove any fauna or flora from a SSSI, isn't as straight foreword as one might think. The land owner has to be granted permission from NE, before they can hand it on to you.

There was a collective oops at one conservation HQ when they discovered this.

...and there's yet another reason why this particular quango cobbled together in unseemly haste and born out of the Foot and Mouth fiasco are so unpopular with so many agencies who are trying to do their very best for the land that they manage. The pages of British Wildlife Magazine are a good place to begin when looking for criticism of this particular body of the UK Government. If NE were a little more in touch with the management requirements of the SSSI's under their stewardship and listned a little more to the land owners and often volunteer groups that are there on the ground we may not have a situation where the majority of SSSI's in this country are, as described by NE themselves as "unfavourable/declining"

And let's not even start on the fact that conservation groups across the UK have accused Natural England of failing to fulfil its remit as an 'independent and powerful guardian of our natural landscape' by accepting the previous Government's projections that three million new homes are needed by 2020, and by going along with the proposed speeding up of the planning system which shall allow local authorities to cirumvent the Green Belt legislation put in place to contrain urban sprawl.

I could go on. Natural England, described by many of it's stake holders as "dictatorial, interfering, petty-minded and out of touch" must not be confused with the body which it replaced, English Nature. As different as chalk and cheese.

So anyway, enough of my latest tirade, suffice to say that just because NE have put in place some convoluted process which effectively makes the job of conservation groups even more difficult than it has to be does not make it right.

Felix.

I hardly imagine that whomever deals with the request at NE, has any familiarity with the requesting site.

Regards Gruditch

I'm on the mailing list for the Natural History Book Shop. This was today's suggested book of the moment. http://www.nhbs.com/title.php?bkfno=190160&ad_id=1072 Note it's a Butterfly Conservation publication

Gibster and his big wooden stirring stick lol

stirring is right Gibster especially where moths are concerned. what scares me a little though is, this is what i was told after having an RDB1 species of micro moth identified a couple of years ago "What you must do, though, is to set it and start a reference collection." which surprised me to say the least. i'm not saying who said it but they are very very well respected and ...i hope.... they assumed it was already expired. needless to say i let it go back from whence it came.

Chris

We covered this topic a while back. As you'd expect, feelings ran high.

It may surprise you to know, Chris, that BC run training courses in how to prep and mount moth genatalia slides as part of the 'Moths Count' initiative. This, of course, means retaining the sppecimen.

Felix.

...prep and mount moth genatalia...

I can't imagine many wanting to mount moth genitalia

Jack

It would be a waste of time going along then Jack.

Jack Harrison wrote:

...prep and mount moth genatalia...

I can't imagine many wanting to mount moth genitalia

Jack

As the old saying goes, it's not what you've got, it's what you do with it that counts.

and no jokes about moth balls - please.......

ChrisC wrote:what scares me a little though is, this is what i was told after having an RDB1 species of micro moth identified a couple of years ago "What you must do, though, is to set it and start a reference collection." which surprised me to say the least

Hi Chris. Similarly I discovered a species of Coleophora new to Britain breeding in the Chiddingfold area (Coleophora larva make cases. Usually the size, shape and angle of the case is uniform per species hence ID is actually often much easier via case than by adult which often needs to be chopped for positive ID). So the first thing we did was search for more cases to take home and rear through. We found six cases, all six perished. So, 'new' to Britain and already reduced thanks to four distinguished entomologists (I don't count myself in that description, I just found the cases for them lol!) Officially I know that a voucher specimen or two will be necessary for the NHM collection. Unofficially I also know beyond doubt that 'spares' will find their way into their private collections. Then, when information about the colony sites are made public, the species will make it's way into yet more private collections.

The following year I found a second site for the species. This time around I was tetrad-bashing solo so the cases stayed where they were. The record was put through and accepted, but I'm keeping schtum on the exact whereabouts!!

Collecting and pinning microleps is the norm in my experience. Certainly there are those who have no wish to retain specimens, but most keen trappers and field-workers do. And the county/local recorders do try to identify mystery specimens from photographs, but sometimes the specimen does need to be pinned or even chopped for positive ID. That is the simple truth of the matter, like it or not. No serious coleopterist or dipterist, for example, would dream of not pinning!

I suspect it is very easy for a British butterfly enthusiast to develop the 'high horse' attitude regards the moral wrongs of collecting butterflies in Britain simply because the species diversity is so low. There is no need to kill, pin or chop butterflies on mainland Britain in order to secure an ID. In Ireland there's the very real problem of deciding whether you're watching Wood White or Real's Wood White. Thankfully for the casual observer they don't overlap in distribution. But that was only discovered (as was the species!) by lots of gen-dets across the whole of Ireland.

Sorry to waffle on again! I should reiterate that I no longer pin specimens. I've never conducted a gen-det although I've seen them done in workshops. I do believe that the vast majority of moth collectors submit their records. I also suspect that many form a collection for purely aesthetic reasons, which I can empathise with, but do not agree with.

Gibster.