www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

Well the number at the start of an OS reference (SU or J etc..) tells you what county your in, for UK anyway, A 4 digit grid reference gets you within a square on a OS map, a 6-figure grid reference identifies an AREA 100m x 100m in size, an 8-figure grid reference identifies an AREA 10m x 10m in size and a 10-figure grid reference identifies an AREA 1m x 1m in size, so an 8 or 10 figure reference would get you the exact location your looking for, maybe even the exact spot in an area you want.

Zonda, well you got your Red Admiral underside, must be pleased. And Nick, sorry about what happened to your car and why people want to hit old cars...maybe they might think that hitting a new car, people are going to complain more about it?

There's something about the UK that the Queens just don't like....

I was told a few years back that clouded yellows wouldn't survive the wet winters in the UK, but now they have, if the QoS doo the same this year and manage to survive, could show a change in climate here. I even remember when hummingbird hawk moths could not survive winter in UK, but now they have managed to survive in one part of UK, I forget which.

Gosh.. I know people like us have to leave their cars in remote car parks on nature reserves, and in country lanes where they are vulnerable. It has to be stressed that you should never leave anything of value in your car, and i do try to do this. However,, i have had several experiences that were 'funny' with people i have met in the countryside, and it left me wondering,,,if i were more elderly, would they have just pushed me over, and taken my equipment? I regularly roam about in remote places with up to £2000 worth of equipment on me, and i have to say, in recent years the prospect of being mugged has been in my mind. Have any of you had bad experiences?

Thanks you lot! Nothing taken (I never leave anything in there anyway - not even a CD/radio) so just annoyance, an excess and some worry that the door will need to be replaced, which as Jack so kindly pointed out would be more than the value of the car and hence a right-off!
BTW Jack - £850, please!
If I can get the glass replaced and the door closes, I might just get away with it....

The joys of inner-city car ownership!
N
Thanks Susie, I might just do that this next weekend, if the weather holds....

Nick. Decent second hand cars are apparently hard to come across at the moment and have absurd price tags. I presume insurance claim is a non-starter. It sounds as if they were probably vandals out for a bit of “fun” rather than genuine petty thieves. But that is no consolation.

It is tempting to go for QofS but it’s an awfully long way and rather smacks of twitching. Of course I wasn’t a million miles away from Brandy Hole at the weekend and we could just as easily have taken our daughter out for the day to Chichester instead of Worthing. However, I didn’t find out about the QofS until Sunday night when I got back home.

I make no claims but while on Worthing Pier, we saw a determined butterfly coming in from the sea, clearly a migrant. We didn’t see it until it was well past, but all I can say is that it wasn’t a Red Admiral or Painted Lady. I assumed Small Tortoiseshell but the absurd thought of QofS did cross my mind at the time. I was of course in ignorance at this point about the QofS breeding further west in Sussex. Ah well, I’ll never know one way or other.

Jack

jackharr wrote: It is tempting to go for QofS but it’s an awfully long way and rather smacks of twitching. Jack

...And just how often will there be the chance to see them and photograph them in the UK? (Twitch..... )
N

Hi all,
I will be meeting more people for a trip to see the Queen of Spain Fritillary at Grid Ref: SU 85040660 tomorrow morning (13 October) at 10.30 am.
Neil

Matsukaze wrote:Where have the Red Admirals in Northern Ireland and south-east Scotland come from? It's been a very poor year for them in the south so far as I know. Are they descended from butterflies that survived the winter in the area, or have the migrants just missed out England?

Well recently there have been larger numbers reported so I asked someone about this and he said about here in Northern Ireland (mentioning me in his message about ones recorded in winter) as he knows about Itish butterflies:

Regarding the source of NI's RAs in 2009, although a few may have overwintered (*yours are the only winter ones I have heard about in the past couple of winters although there were a number in 2006/2007 which was the mildest winter in recent years, and followed a good summer for them) I have little doubt that the ones we have seen from late summer onwards were the progeny of ones which migrated here at the end of June and early July; this was a fair sized influx but because there were so many Painted Ladies they were perhaps not as noticeable. However there were relatively few from late May to the end of June at the time when Painted Ladies were particularly numerous. The resultant progeny seemed to have peaked in most places in late August or early September.

Possibly the earlier peak there might have been the result of progeny from hibernated individuals, although this is speculation.

I was also told, because of where I live, the wind comes from all directions, cool air from the coast to less cold air in one direction to colder air another way, making the winter here less cold than other places. Plus, I had the largest number of Painted Ladies and Red Admirals in Northern Ireland, no far from my house this year, with the exception of one other place a bit further North West. Guessing because of the forests and gardens here that held a whide virety of plants and unspoiled habitats, it was good for them to breed here.

Hopefully this'll work cos I've had trouble resizing images. One from today. More tomorrow perhaps

Nice one Susie. That is a HUGE image!
Cheers
Lee

Hello,

12 October 2009
Life for the declining number of butterflies was beginning to becoming more difficult. The Ivy was still an attractant but everywhere the bushes were dominated by swarms of wasps, bees and flies with the occasional bumblebee and the butterflies if they were able to find a perch it was an even chance that it would be right at the top of the bush. Predatory dragonflies were frequently seen, mostly Common Darters, but also at least one Southern Hawker.




Red Admirals were the only butterfly that were numbered in double figures with 14 or 15. Twelve butterfly species were seen on the day including at least five, possibly as many as eight Clouded Yellows, one of which was seen to settle on purple nectaring flowers. At least half of the six male Common Blues on the lower slopes of Mill Hill were in a very fresh condition.

Full Report
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Butterfly-lis ... #12October

Mill Hill and its Butterflies
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/MillHill2009Article.htm


First Adur Butterfly Dates 2003 to 2009
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/ButterfliesFFT.htm

Adur Butterfly & Large Moth List
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Butterfly-list2009.html

Cheers

Andy Horton
glaucus@hotmail.com
Adur Valley Nature Notes
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Adur2009.html
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Adur2008.html
Adur Valley Nature Notes: October 2009
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Oct2009.html

What I could not understand is the 8 figure map reference. Is that just making it more precise?[/quote]

Ian Pratt wrote:What I could not understand is the 8 figure map reference. Is that just making it more precise?

[/quote]

Yes.

AB12345678 = AB123567 = AB 1256 = AB15

Cheers,

- Pete

Cornish contacts report 'many' red admiral flying south, with numbers building on Lands End and the Isle of Scilly. This follows reports from recent days when they've been heading in a westerly direction.

Also on Scilly a 'notable' increase in Painted Lady numbers in recent days. Possible evidence of an attempt at southerly migration?

Felix.

Felix wrote:Cornish contacts report 'many' red admiral flying south, with numbers building on Lands End and the Isle of Scilly. This follows reports from recent days when they've been heading in a westerly direction.

Also on Scilly a 'notable' increase in Painted Lady numbers in recent days. Possible evidence of an attempt at southerly migration?

Felix.

Hello,

I think (from lots of reports) the tendency is to fly from the south-west up the English Channel with the prevailing winds. Thousands may landfall in southern England.

Then they fly around willy-nilly.

Adur Butterfly & Large Moth List
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Butterfly-list2009.html

Cheers

Andy Horton
glaucus@hotmail.com
Adur Valley Nature Notes
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Adur2009.html
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Adur2008.html
Adur Valley Nature Notes: October 2009

Pete says:

AB12345678 = AB123567 = AB 1256 = AB15

Pedant mode. AB12345678 when rounded to six figures becomes AB123568 not AB123567 etc, etc

Jack

Of course - you're absolutely right, Jack.

Cheers,

- Pete

Repeated my walk of the 8th yesterday. 92 Painted Ladies and 58 Clouded Yellows including a mating pair and 3 helice, one of which was definitely in ovipositing mode. Painted Lady numbers would have been higher if they had been as conspicuous as the Clouded Yellows at a distance. Saw a Stonechat attempt and fail to catch a Clouded Yellow in full flight. Some signs of Red Admirals flying out to sea. Also seen Small Coppers, another Holly Blue, and a Peacock. A Comma was feeding on ivy in dull overcast conditions on sunday.

Misha

I hesitate to cross swords with Jack, but I do not think that rounding up applies to grid references unlike decimals. A record from say SU 199099 is still in SU1909 and SU10. So you were right Pete after all.

Misha

You absolutely do not round up grid references, otherwise you end up with a different grid square..! For example:

ST 6467 7187 would round up to give a six figure ref of:

ST 647 719 you're already drifting away from the original point. This would in turn round up to a four figure ref of:

ST 65 72 which is a different grid square to the original grid ref...!

Felix.

Felix said:

You absolutely do not round up grid references, otherwise you end up with a different grid square..! For example:..snip

I take your point but it's not the entire story.

Let’s say that my Garmin GPS records TM 42598 39096 as the (hypothetical) locality of a tree on which WL Hairstreaks breed.

Now assume that I pass that Grid Ref on to someone else who then looks for my colony using a paper 1:50,000 Ordnance Survey, in which case of course, he is obliged to use a 6-figure reference. If he simply knocks off the last two digits of that long reference (which then becomes TM 425 390) and looks for the tree in that position, he will be the best part of 100 metres out in both north and south directions. If instead he rounded the reference as I suggested earlier to be TM 426 391, he would be within 50 metres (in each direction) of that tree at the very worst.

Jack