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l'Echalp 26-07-2020 Today's photos are mainly from the upper car park reached by a rough gravel track but drivable.I hope Roger G will be able to exercise is expertise on the Skippers, I shall also be interested in comments on the Pieridae, at 1800m could this be a  Mountain Small White (Pieris ergane), that would make my day, or  Small White (Pieris rapae) ?
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Dusky Meadow Brown (Hyponephele lycaon) Fairly confident on this ID, Male and Female.
Large Wall (Lasiommata maera)

Silver-studded Blue (Plebejus argus)

Mountain Ringlet (Erebia epiphron)
Tufted Marbled Skipper (Carcharodus flocciferus) ?


Male and Female Chalk-hill Blue (Polyommatus coridon)

Skippers

l'Echalp 26-07-2020
Today's photos are mainly from the upper car park reached by a rough gravel track but drivable.I hope Roger G will be able to exercise is expertise on the Skippers, I shall also be interested in comments on the Pieridae, at 1800m could this be a Mountain Small White (Pieris ergane), that would make my day, or Small White (Pieris rapae) ?
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Sorry folks pressed the  submit button before I had finished.
Skipper Picture of the day. Tomorrow we continue our butterfly safari adventure to the pretty Vallée de la Clarée

Hi Jim, your erebia looks to be montana, and a couple of those pyrgus skippers, including your 'pic of the day' might well be foulquieri, given the white hair tuft at the end of the abdomen, although Roger will be better placed to rule on that one.

Sadly, your White is not ergane, as that species has no black spot on the underside of the forewing.

l’Echalp.
A short video of the butterflies at l’Echalp puddling.
https://jamesgibbs6929.zenfolio.com/p57 ... #hec42ad62

This blue puzzles me, no blue spots could this be an Amanda's Blue (Polyommatus amandus)

I have rather come to the opinion that the hair tuft clue to foulquieri is something of a red herring. Lafranchis shows an illustration of the foulquieri tuft extending under the abdomen in comparison to alveus. Why only alveus? I can only conclude that it is because, from an upperside view, foulquieri could be confused with alveus accretus, and could not really be confused with any other species.

The hair tuft, as viewed from above, as most views will be, does not, I think, tell you anything. It is possible to see how far past the abdomen it extends and in some cases side tufts to a varying degree are visible. I have looked at a lot of photos of Pyrgus that can be identified with some degree of confidence and the hair tufts are a very movable feast. For instance, here is a photo of alveus:
https://www.butterfliesoffrance.com/htm ... 9es_8Jul19_

So, looking Jim's photos, the second one could be foulquieri but on the strength of the markings rather than the visible hair tuft. The marking are usually markedly jagged for foulquieri - which in my experience sets it apart form any other species - but when they are worn, as Jim's is here, this clue is unclear.

On the two recent photos, the Blue is very likely Common (P. icarus) or just possibly Eros (P. eros). Amanda's (P. amandus) would not have a forewing cell spot that is just visible here. The Erebia isn't Mountain (E. epiphron) and most likely Large (E. euryale) although the lack of chequering on the fringe bothers me, but this can easily be lost on ageing, and this specimen does look aged.

Roger

I've got a lot of this thread still to look back through - I just haven't had time recently. It's very interesting.

I agree with Roger about belieri and hair tufts. It is unclear exactly what the difference is from above, especially as photos on the web are likely to be incorrectly labelled (quite possibly reinforcing errors, as dodgy identifications are used to make further identifications, which are then posted). Belieri is supposed to be hairier at the base of the forewings too, but again, that is a difficult thing to judge without detailed photos and guidance to set the parameters. That said, I agree that on the face of it the second skipper does look like belieri.

I also agree the Erebia is not epiphron. The hindwing looks good for montana but the forewing doesn't, unless montana in that region is very different from in Switzerland. How about gorge? I don't like it for euryale.

The 'possible amandus' is most likely icarus, in my opinion. Eros usually has a smaller cell spot and a different feel.

Guy

Regarding the blue, I only put eros in the frame (and only just) because some of Jim's photos are end of season and with varying degrees of ageing. It would have to be a very faded eros to match that photo, and I agree that it is almost 100% icarus beyond question.

For the Erebia, we may be in Valais c.f. Queyras territory. In the Queyras, the euryale would almost certainly be adyte and, as such, match Jim's photo almost exactly. It is also exceptionally common in the region. Here is a photo from the Col de Vars, Hautes-Alpes, not far from the Queyras (not that such comparisons are in any way conclusive, but they are indicative). The narrowing of the band is very typical of adyte, and the ocelli are spot-on (pun intended) for typical adyte. Nominate euryale is very different and in my experience is not encountered in this region. My problem was the fringes; the fringes of euryale are chequered but the fringes tend to lose their chequering on ageing, so I would not discount euryale on that score. I would have greater reasons to discount other Erebia, though. For montana, I would expect the forewing band to be tapered rather than waisted and to have slightly jagged edging. I would also expect a full set of hindwing lunules, and for them to be closer to the lower margin. I would also expect the forewing ocelli to be slightly displaced from each other, rather than in line, as here. I stress that when I say "I would expect", that isn't the same as saying "that is how it is".

I think we have the same geographical scenario with gorge. I would expect (he said cautiously) that gorge in this area to be erynis with no ocelli.

Jim - next year, go to the Queyras and then onto the Valais to get photos of all available subspecies

Roger

Ah - I didn't see the upperside picture labelled epiphron (or, I saw it but didn't notice the label). It was the first, underside - also labelled epiphron - I was referring to. I wouldn't hesitate to call that last one euryale. I notice you'd already called montana for that first one! I'm doing too many things at once and replying in haste!

Guy

In which case we are in complete ID agreement!

Jim - next year, go to the Queyras and then onto the Valais to get photos of all available subspecies

At the moment Roger that seems little more than a dream, I have to get through the winter first, but hope springs eternal.

l'Echalp 26-07-2020
The last pictures from l'Echalp


This one is for your attention Roger.
Skipper convention ? Our next destination, the Vallee de la Claree (Nevache)

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I'll venture some thoughts:
The first Erebia - Large Ringlet (E. euryale)
The Pyrgus - they all look like Carline (P. carlinae) to me, supported I believe by what I could see of the underside.
The second Erebia - Marbled Ringlet (E. montana)
Roger

Yes Jim, definitely Marbled Ringlet for your last erebia. They were just emerging when I was there in early July, so by August I guess they'd be fairly common.

We leave l’Echalp to continue our butterfly safari and arrived at Nevache where we found the village swarming with visitors, I had been hoping to explore further up the valley along the mountain road leading up from the Village of Nevache but it was barred, access limited by Navette, a large queue was patiently waiting their turn, most without masks.
We decided on a rest day and booked in at the campsite used last year and sat enjoying the sun, even so ever optimistic I hoped for some interesting species to pass by, a coincident perhaps, an Apollo fluttered across in front of us and landed at the exact location where I had photoghaphed one on our last years visit.
To avoid the crowded campsite we decided to leave in the morning for more peaceful surroundings.
Destination Arsine 1750m.


Upper Nevach,Vallée.


We were not the only ones enjoying the sunshine, Dark Green Fritillary (Argynnis aglaja) and Titania's Fritillary (Boloria titania) were feasting on Stemmacantha rhapontica. ? Knapweed Fritillary (Melitaea phoebe)
an Apollo fluttered across in front of us and landed at the exact location where I had photoghaphed one on our last years visit.
A Red Underwing Skipper (Spialia sertorius)
Other skippers were present. Damon Blue (Polyommatus damon) were not as numerous,a courting couple. And for the Erebia experts

Shame about Nevache, Jim. Many parts of southern France are just intolerable from late July through August. That's why I head to inland Spain instead at that time of year.

I'd say your erebia looks like euryale again.

Shame about Nevache, Jim.

Yes David, Nevache was a little disappointing but with five new species seen on this trip it has not been an overall disappointment.

Arsine
Leaving the Vallée de la Clarée we take the road to the Col de Lauteret, an easy drive compared with many of the alpine passes that I have driven. At the top of the col, and this may be of interest to plant lovers who may be reading this little journal the Alpine botanical garden is home to a collection of Alpine plants from around the mountain regions of the world, highly recommend, we paused for a coffee break and admired the view of the Meiji 3984m before descending in the direction of La Grave, turning off the main road we drove down to the little hamlet of Arsine.
My wife and I first visited Arsine in 2010, we then were both fit enough to hike up this beautiful valley

I named it the valley, of the Marmots, here they seemed unusually unconcerned with their human visitors, it was fun watching the Marmot sparring, we have since revisited it in 2017, this time it’s for butterflies.
The camping municipal was crowded, fortunately the parking was surprisingly almost  empty, I set out to try my luck, my first walk was not very productive so I then decided to explore higher up the valley using the rough gravel track that leads to a car park further up the valley.

There was a dearth of interesting species but lateness of the season and my inability to walk far to explore further up the valley may have been the reason for the limited numbers of species seen.

Damon Blue's  seemed to be following me around. As I returned to the car park a Great Sooty Satyr (Satyrus ferula) was waiting for me. At the upper car park a Mountain Clouded Yellow (Colias phicomone) and two others worn and faded. A boldly marked Marbled White (Melanargia galathea) Yet another  Erebia[ And for the picture of the day my all time favourite, the Apollo



Our next stop will be , Alpe d'Huez  2070m.

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Lovely scenery again, Jim, and I look forward to seeing your images from Alpe d'Huez.

As for your trio of Colias, I don't think any are phicomone. The latter two look like alfacariensis and the depth of colour on the first is more like crocea.

Lovely scenery again, Jim, and I look forward to seeing your images from Alpe d'Huez.

As for your trio of Colias, I don't think any are phicomone. The latter two look like alfacariensis and the depth of colour on the first is more like crocea.

Thanks for your comment David, always good to have feedback, I confess I have limited experience with high altitude species. I didn’t altogether dismiss alfacariensis or crocea but I associate these species with the lower altitudes and warmer regions of France where I frequently encounter them not thinking that they could possibly survive the harsh winter conditions of the high alpine regions, another lesson learnt, never discount the miracle of nature.
Another visit to my optometrist ?
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I wish I could see these Marmots scampering around the Mendips.

I wish I could see these Marmots scampering around the Mendips.

Hi Matsukaze,
Dolebury warren would be just the place to introduce them, don't you think ?
The Valley above Arsine is one of the least frequented valleys, the animals are not as  timid as other places I visit.
Let's hope we can return next year to see them again

Medard wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:07 am...I didn’t altogether dismiss alfacariensis or crocea but I associate these species with the lower altitudes and warmer regions of France where I frequently encounter them not thinking that they could possibly survive the harsh winter conditions of the high alpine regions, another lesson learnt, never discount the miracle of nature.

Both of these are mobile species, Jim, and they are fairly comfortable at moderate altitudes. You can see Clouded Yellows on the coast, but they can also turn up at 2,000m. Mountain Clouded Yellow, on the other hand, ain't ever going to be seen within an coastally, although they can be common between 1,700-2,400m.