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John Vergo wrote:David, I must say that you have put up some tricky ones , my first thought, when I saw yours, was hispana, but now I am not quite sure, yes maybe a hybrid ??, but the one Paul have put on, I would call that one hispana

That's what I thought when I first saw them, John.

They're not albicans, nor are they caelestissima. I'm going to be on a mission next year for sure!

selbypaul wrote:Hi David
If you remember, on the same day, I got a slightly better upperside shot of a different individual of the possible Provencal Chalkhill Blue (lysandra hispana), see attached photo.

Looking through my various identification books and also online, one of the features of many of the pictures and photos of hispana seems to be on the topside of the forewing, with the dusky black line running parallel with the wing edge, enclosing the grey/black spots. Also, your underside shot looks much more like hispana than anything else, including caelestissima or albicans, the parents of the hybrid called coerulescens.

I wouldn't rule coerulescens out, as it is the next most likely identification, but for me, it still looks like hispana.

I agree with all that, Paul, but I still haven't seen any distribution map showing hispana as present in the region. As it extends southwards down the east coast of Spain, it seems to be restricted to the area fairly close to the coast.

I think I may have to email Miguel Munguira or contact Paul Browning (author of Butterflies of the Iberian Peninsula) to get further information, although I will certainly be making studying these ambiguous individuals a priority when I'm in the area again next August.

Hi David
Acorrding to Distribution Atlas of European Butterflies and Skippers ( Otakar Kudrna 2015 ) hispana should be in the area
john

John Vergo wrote:Hi David
Acorrding to Distribution Atlas of European Butterflies and Skippers ( Otakar Kudrna 2015 ) hispana should be in the area
john

Thanks John
I'm not at home at the moment so don't have access to my copy of that atlas, but I thought it showed what you said. Thanks for confirming
Paul

I have Kudrna's book too, but I don't have a great deal of confidence in the distribution maps contained within it.

How accurate can a guide generally be when it shows the whole of Europe on a single page?

For example, take a look at the UK distribution for High Brown Fritillary.

This isn't the only example of inaccuracy, but it's probably the best one:

David M wrote:I have Kudrna's book too, but I don't have a great deal of confidence in the distribution maps contained within it.

How accurate can a guide generally be when it shows the whole of Europe on a single page?

For example, take a look at the UK distribution for High Brown Fritillary.

This isn't the only example of inaccuracy, but it's probably the best one:

Distribution(2).jpg

Agreed David. I only use it as indicative. From memory, the green dots are for any sightings in the last 20 years. So between 1995 and 2015. Which means species could have expanded or contracted significantly in that period.

So in terms of hispana I would say Kurdna's book would indicate that the species may be or may have been in the Albarracín area this last 20 years. Not enough to confirm our sighting as hispana, but another factor to consider.

The more I read, Paul, the more ambiguous it becomes. There are multiple local forms of the various Chalkhills and where they come into contact with other species in the 'overlap' areas things become very confusing indeed!

I suppose the acid test would be to visit the area in May. If there's a Chalkhill on the wing at this time of year then it would clearly have to be hispana. Oh to be retired and be able to test the theory!

David M wrote:Oh to be retired and be able to test the theory!

Indeed! 17 years seems like a long time for me to wait!

Great trip report David and an excellent holiday, my first guided group butterfly holiday.
I booked it with a little trepidation but found the whole experience fantastic. Well lead, good company and plenty of butterflies at known sites so no hunting around for days to find particular species.
As usual I've produced a film DVD of the holiday and below is a short trailer showing some of the species seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0SsS2DTn_Y[/video]

If anyone is interested in the hour long DVD more information can be found at http://www.wildlife-films.com
The widescreen (16:9) DVD filmed in high definition shows 88 species of butterflies taken in The Montes Universales. It shows their habitats and includes all of the specialities of the region.

I watched this yesterday as it was linked in Greenwings' autumn newsletter.

Many thanks for posting it, Paul. I was going to ask you to put it on here so I'm pleased you beat me to it!

Such a shame you and Helen weren't with me for those last three days. You'd have been knee deep in zapateri! Still, a very enjoyable trip and your clip provides happy memories.

It was a great trip but if I went back I think May would be a good time to go to check out what flies earlier in the year. Maybe you could do a recky for Greenwings?
I wouldn't have minded those extra three days. I would've certainly got a bit more zapateri footage and maybe added a few more species to my personal tally which ended up at 101.
There was one butterfly at the Sandy Grizzled Skipper site that I'm convinced was a Ripart's Anomalous Blue, all though they're not supposed to be in the area. If I get chance I'll post some footage of it but it'll need slowing down as it was being blown around too much to see the finer details.

Yes, I definitely agree with Paul W that it would be very interesting to see what flies in the same locations during the late April to early June period. I imagine there would be many species that are not seen on any of the other Greenwings tours.

Paul Wetton wrote:It was a great trip but if I went back I think May would be a good time to go to check out what flies earlier in the year. Maybe you could do a recky for Greenwings?

Yes, it's something I'd very much like to do, Paul, although annual leave constraints prevent me from indulging myself thus.

I know Spring Ringlet flies in the area, and a May visit would help solve the Chalkhill conundrum. It'd also be nice to see a greener, more verdant landscape with maybe a bit of water still gurgling through the ramblas, rather than the dry, dusty and arid terrain seen in late summer.

selbypaul wrote:Yes, I definitely agree with Paul W that it would be very interesting to see what flies in the same locations during the late April to early June period. I imagine there would be many species that are not seen on any of the other Greenwings tours.

Given that the altitudes are not too high, Paul, I'd say it'd be a very interesting spot for some of the earlier-flying species.

Until after midsummer's day, it's a bit of a waste of time ascending above 1,800m, but many of the best sites in Montes are between 1,000 & 1,400m, so I daresay there'd be desirable stuff about, and maybe one or two surprises given how under-recorded the area is.

I'll get round to it eventually, although a week of stodgy bread & underwhelming breakfasts is probably my annual limit! Two would be pushing things.

I agree, a May trip there would be most interesting, for anyone who has time. No doubt some species fly early, to avoid the heat and the shrivelling of food plants later. As they do in many other parts of Iberia, of course. I’m certain there would be great botanical interests there, too.

essexbuzzard wrote:I agree, a May trip there would be most interesting, for anyone who has time. No doubt some species fly early, to avoid the heat and the shrivelling of food plants later. As they do in many other parts of Iberia, of course. I’m certain there would be great botanical interests there, too.

Indeed, Mark. I fully intend to go back to Spain in spring to see what's about. Certainly in the early part of the season, this country is without parallel in Europe with regard to flora and fauna.

Excellent - I had been wondering whether this area would be worth visiting earlier in the year, as high summer in central Spain would probably be a bit too hot for our liking! Maybe in a couple of years...can you get caravans along the roads in the general area, and are there suitable campsites?

Hello Matsukaze, go to Google earth tap in Montes Universales, Spain, campsites, a list of campsites should appear, click on the red label a description of the campsite will appear, this will give you information on the site.
Drag the little red man to the blue road marker ,you can then drive and take a look at the campsite, roads etc, hope this is helpful.

Thanks for the input, Jim.

Chris, this is the least populated region in Spain so there is very little traffic yet the roads are mostly very good. Getting from one place to another is quite easy and there are plenty of fuel stations dotted around.

The mountains aren't precipitous like the Alps and Pyrenees so there are very few tight hairpin bends or steep climbs.

I'd say a road trip there would be extremely enjoyable.