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Re: Pauline

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:49 pm
by Pauline
That's really sweet of you to say so Debbie. I hate my photo being taken so it's something that only happens about once each decade :lol:

Thank you Paul. Hope we meet up sometime, some place but the Outer Hebrides sounds perfect to me (can I come? :lol: :lol: :lol: ). Let us know how you get on.

Richard Fox has just informed me that my WLH are the first he has heard of this year so that is just the icing on the cake for me :D :D . I am looking forward to future visits but other commitments take priority. A very (very) short trip out today as my old cat is a bit poorly but I saw 2 Ringlets, my first sighting this season. First sightings seem to be coming thick and fast at the moment. Yesterday I saw my first SWF but no photo opportunity. A selection of Ringlet photos below:
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Re: Pauline

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:10 pm
by Paul Harfield
Hi Pauline

Your report on the White Letter Hairstreaks is superb :D , it gives quite a different insight into the elusive nature of this species, very helpful. It is another species I have yet to see, but hopefully this year I can tick it off so to speak. I have spent the last year noting down areas of Elm that look to be worth investigation, which is perhaps a little obsessive I know :? There is one particular area in Portsmouth that I have my eye on, not too far from a known colony on private land. I will let you know how I get on. I am aware of a few colonies locally, but am keen to find my own site. Good to see they are out at least, the next couple of weeks will hopefully be quite fruitful :D I also found my first Ringlet of the year yesterday though my pic is nothing compared to your beautiful images :D

Could you tell me what time of day were your sightings :?: As much detail of times as you feel important :?:

Re: Pauline

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:42 pm
by David M
Pauline wrote:The first hour was hard. I'd left Liphook bathed in sunshine and arrived at a site with overcast skies and a cool breeze. No sign of WLH for the next 45 minutes when the sun eventually managed to break through. Within seconds, the first WLH appeared. I remembered from last year that these butterflies warm up by lying on their side on a leaf facing the sun. What I hadn't realised was that they frequently turn over, warming one side then the other, doing this as many as 4-5 times before they exploded into action. So, the only photos I got for the next 20 minutes were butterflies in a prone position....
Just shows that patience is a virtue, Pauline.

Excellent images of a very elusive butterfly. I particularly like the third one showing the insect taking fluid from the leaf surface.

Re: Pauline

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:46 am
by Pauline
I admire your persistence and determination to find your own local butterflies Paul. There have to be loads of butterflies out there waiting to be found, in areas not usually looked at, just like your Duke. You might have noticed that Sussex seem to make a concerted ongoing effort to explore areas in an endeavour to locate and 'map' previously unrecorded colonies so yes, I would be very interested to know how you get on and wish you the best of luck. The WLH is an intriguing butterfly and your question made me consider carefully. I think their activity is purely related to weather conditions and availability of nectar sources and their drive to mate, rather than any 'routine'. At various sites I have seen them come down to nectar quite readily throughout the day whilst at another I stood below trees for 5 hours and not one came down! To see them flitting around 10.30 - 12.30 on a bright warm morning is a good bet but if you want a closer view then wait until the brambles and thistle in particular are fully out and after a shower (which washes the honeydew off the leaves) and choose a day which isn't too hot else you might find them too recumbent. Close-up views are likely to be more successful a bit later in their season when the butterflies seem to be more relaxed and less driven.

Thank you for the complement David. If you look carefully at the first photo you will see the butterfly taking in nutrients whilst lying flat - several were doing this. They reminded me of a Spaniel I used to have (Orion) - a cracking little gundog, very fast but when he got home he would eat his dinner lying down, then he'd be ready to go again!

A few shots taken of anything that moved whilst waiting for the WLH to make an appearance:
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Re: Pauline

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:51 am
by MikeOxon
Pauline wrote:accidentally deleted them all from my camera
Look for a program called Zero Assumption Recovery (ZAR), which can rescue you from this situation :) Photo recovery is free. It relies on the fact that when you 'delete' something, the operating system actually only marks the space as being free for further use. So, providing you catch it before the pics are over-written, then they can be recovered. It even works if you have formatted the card. It's an essential part of my toolkit!

Mike

Re: Pauline

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:38 am
by Paul Wetton
Hi Pauline

I'm looking forward to the Outer Hebrides but it'll all depend on the weather and knowing my luck it may just be raining and blowing a gale. I'll keep my fingers crossed and post some photos if we get any.

Re: Pauline

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:47 pm
by Pauline
Mike, oh Mike, ......... if only I'd known that on Saturday! In despair I even got out my camera manual - a rarity for me - but it confirmed that once they were gone, they were gone. Next time I get in a pickle my first port of call will be an email to you :lol: I've only done something similar once before and that was to run out of battery just I was about to take some shots of a Queen of Spain Frit at a site near Chichester. Richard Roebuck from the Sussex group saved my sanity by giving me new batteries and trusting that I would post him the cost even tho we'd never met before. Richard has probably even forgotten this incident but I shall be eternally grateful.

I think I would enjoy the Outer Hebrides even if it was blowing a gale Paul and look forward to hearing how you get on.

Re: Pauline

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:50 pm
by Pauline
Animal problems have prevented me from getting out and taking photos recently but I needed an hour off before I start the evening chores. I was pleased to photograph my first Small Skippers of the year and I am fairly certain I saw an Essex Skipper but no photographic evidence - yet! These photos came at a high price. As I bent down to get level with the Small Skipper on the grass, my attention was focused on trying to work out the best composition, checking the background etc. I was suddenly being bitten all over and I became aware that I was teeming with ants from top to toe. Well, I almost stripped off there and then but several dog walkers were in the vicinity so I settled for a crazy kind of jig whilst flapping my clothes around wildly and trying to brush the damn things off, which started several dogs barking. The owners must have thought it was me who was barking mad but I have been bitten on my neck downwards. When will I ever learn :roll: :oops: I hope the shots are worth it.
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Re: Pauline

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:55 pm
by Willrow
You make that sound so funny Pauline... :lol: :lol: :lol: I'm sure it was rather painful, but those shots are spiffin :wink:

Bill :D

Re: Pauline

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:06 pm
by Wurzel
The shots are certainly worth the suffering - cracking :D :wink: I've still got to find some Smessex but hopefully my stop-offs will yield one soon...

Have a goodun

Wurzel

Re: Pauline

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:06 pm
by Pauline
I'm glad you saw the funny side Bill and thank you for the compliment. I am just about getting there and can almost smile at my stupidity :oops: . I learned that particular jig a few years ago when I accidentally disturbed a wasps nest in the garden and was badly stung. I danced my way across the garden to get indoors and when I phoned a pest controller (sorry Mark, didn't know about you then) I was told they were German wasps and much more aggressive than the usual sort! Was he having me on :?: :shock:

The jury's still out on that one Wurzel but I am impressed by your multi-tasking and time management and I am sure you will see your Skippers soon.

I am feeling frustrated today. It is perfect summer weather and just right to see all these lovely butterflies that are emerging right now, but Maggie has problems and I need to stay close. I did get out briefly in the mid-day heat and managed some record shots of the first Marbled Whites I have seen this season.
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Still not sure about cropping and haven't had time to look up the 'rules' or guidance so I have tried this 2 different ways.
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Re: Pauline

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:45 pm
by Pauline
Just in case anyone out there is intending to look for WLH this weekend (rather than PE which I imagine will be out any day) they are coming down to nectar now - I disturbed 4 today in the same area within a hedge, as I was not expecting to find them there and only managed one poor photo.
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Re: Pauline

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:45 pm
by David M
Pauline wrote:Just in case anyone out there is intending to look for WLH this weekend (rather than PE which I imagine will be out any day) they are coming down to nectar now
That's useful to know, Pauline.

I intend to be spending Sunday in a WLH environment and will keep my eyes peeled.

Re: Pauline

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:53 am
by Pauline
Good luck David and others - looking forward to seeing the results of this weekends outings.

Re: Pauline

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:40 pm
by Pauline
With the weather set to be blisteringly hot, and with the lure of DGF, time out today had to be on Old Winchester Hill. Whenever I have been there before there has been a refreshing breeze at the very least, but today, even at 9.45am, the air was still and hot - very hot!
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13 species were seen in a fairly short time frame including a lovely fresh Brimstone and a Small Blue which I don't often see here. I also saw the DGF but the only 2 that I saw grounded were out of reach - one way up high on Elderflower and the other with wings folded in the grass on the wrong side of a fence :(

However, the butterflies that stole the show for me today were the Small Tortoiseshells. In the past I have struggled to see this species but today I saw more than I have seen in the last 5 years. They ranged from well worn
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(in fact this poor old butterfly even landed on me), to very, very fresh, and some in between:
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After so many years of not seeing this beauty I just couldn't get enough of it. To avoid the heat which by now was quite oppressive the Small Tortoiseshells were spending a lot of time with wings closed, body aligned with the direction of the sun, so that the least possible part of their body was exposed. They started to look for shade under leaves resulting in some unusual poses:
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I also witnessed some unusual behaviour but more of that later.

On my return I met a fellow enthusiast who introduced me to the delights of the Fragrant Orchid and a flower which is apparently rare in some areas but not here, the Round Headed Rampian (although that might not be the correct spelling). A gorgeous shade of blue and just asking to be photographed:
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Re: Pauline

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:00 pm
by Pauline
Having seen so few Small Tortoiseshell over the last 5 years I am not sure how to interpret this behaviour. The fact that I do not know whether these butterflies are male or female makes it even more difficult. Perhaps it is possible to tell from the shape of the abdomen but rarely have I used this as a means to identify gender.
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The butterfly on the right was sitting, wings closed, in the centre of a nettle patch when approached by the butterfly on the left, who was showing a strong interest. A couple of times this butterfly had made brief approaches before flying off but always staying fairly close. I initially wondered if this was a courtship ritual of kinds and whether I was about to witness a mating. However, the butterfly appeared to be quite aggressive, nudging the other one who was totally passive and unresponsive. I wondered if this was a female 'rejecting' the male, but where were the signs of rejection - I could see no movement from 'her'. The 'male' came round to face her so in this photo 'he' is now on the right side:
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The aggressive stance continued with a repeated thrusting of himself towards her whilst quickly opening and closing his wings. 'Her' only response was to draw back ever so slightly and position her antennae over her back which looked like a submissive gesture. In contrast 'his' antennae were thrust forward and his front legs were thrashing about.
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Every few minutes there would be complete stillness when both remained motionless before the pattern started again.
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I watched for about 15 minutes but could not wait to see the outcome so I am wondering was it

a. Prelude to mating;

b. Rejection of male by female;

c. Males behaving in a territorial fashion, each wanting the same space;

d. Something else.

If anyone has any experience of similar behaviour in this species, a different interpretation or the ability to distinguish male from female I would be very interested.

Re: Pauline

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:25 pm
by David M
Tortoiseshells do this to the point of distraction in Spring, Pauline. Goodness knows how long I've watched this kind of courtship behaviour but it never seems to lead to anything.

From what I've seen, it's the male following the female, dipping his antennae onto her at regular intervals. She, in turn, never seems to reject him absolutely and even flicks her wings open occasionally, but where they actually go to pair I don't know. This is the case with all UK vanessids. I've seen a relatively recent image of mating Commas, but I've never seen Peacocks, Tortoiseshells or Red Admirals photographed similarly. In fact, the first person who provides pictures of a copulating pair of Red Admirals will probably receive some kind of international award!

Re: Pauline

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:32 pm
by Vince Massimo
Hi Pauline,

This looks like classic egg laying behaviour for this species. Both are females vying to lay on the same favoured leaf and their interaction in this case is mainly due to the lack of space on the leaf. I believe that the last image in your earlier post could also be a an egg laying individual rather than one looking for shade or rest. Badgerbob described similar behaviour in his sightings report yesterday.

Vince

EDIT: Looks like we all decided to reply at the same time :D

Re: Pauline

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:33 pm
by Padfield
This is very interesting behaviour, Pauline!

Sexing Vanessids is difficult but I have to say they both look like females to me ... In the first picture, the one on the left has a very female abdomen and when you can see it (now on the right) in a later picture it also looks female. The other one doesn't show its abdomen but it seems to have eyes of the same size, or perhaps smaller.

I'm really not sure about this, and am happy to be corrected by an expert. It also strikes me that the positions they are in more resemble oviposturing/ovipositing than pre-mating. I've seen males chase or push females around with bent abdomen but this doesn't look like that at all. The fact it is happening in a nettle patch suggests at least one of them is a female preparing to lay.

We all know what happens when male butterflies clash over a sunspot, but does anyone know what happens when females both eye up the same, tender foodplant?

Just a thought - I'm sure someone else will be able to sex them for sure and smash this theory!

Guy

EDIT: Just seen David's post. I must say, I've never seen this, or at least not like this. I have seen pairs of other species face off in this way, so David's probably right.

EDIT: Now I've seen Vince's post!

Re: Pauline

Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:39 pm
by David M
Must confess, I've never heard of female butterflies 'clashing' over a favoured egg-laying spot, but why not? We all know how fussy and particular they can be, and I guess species that lay in clutches would be more defensive of their 'patch' than would single egg-laying species.

Trying to apply human logic to butterfly behaviour is almost impossible at times.