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Re: Pauline
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 5:10 pm
by Pauline
Ah, Dave, appreciate your comment re DGF but it's still not the shot I want
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
I was at the wrong side for the sun and couldn't do anything about it.
Cheers Wurzel - you're not the only one that's been fooled by that SWF shot
Re Marbled White - I think you are both right and that is a lesson for me to take more notice of the immediate surroundings! However, is that another egg she is just about to drop (she had been there for quite a while) or is it part of the ovi-posting mechanism? Pity the shot isn't clearer.
Now I know there are some VERY clever folk on this site and I am hoping someone might be able to answer this question. At what point in the life cycle of a butterfly does the metamorphosis from larva to butterfly begin? I had always assumed it was in the pupal stage but I am not sure now and this is the reason why. I have been watching the last remaining Brimstone larva on my little Alder Buckthorn plant and it was quite obvious from the behaviour that it was intending to pupate on the plant (unlike the other half dozen or so). I am sure there must be a technical term for the period just prior to pupation but I don't know what it is. Anyway, I have been taking frequent photos to try to demonstrate what was happening and when the larva was secured by the girdle - still technically a caterpillar? - the photos seemed to show the outline of a butterfly's wings where the front legs are. Please tell me if I am just being fanciful here but it is a serious question. Here's the series of shots anyway:
![P1120737ad.jpg (315.36 KiB) Viewed 3371 times P1120737ad.jpg](./files/thumb_1095_b2b7ac850fade2651ad03653ea5e852e)
![P1120740ad.jpg (345.68 KiB) Viewed 3371 times P1120740ad.jpg](./files/thumb_1095_21ac07ba9723bd7ad7934c45da19a9f3)
![P1120743ad.jpg (352.8 KiB) Viewed 3371 times P1120743ad.jpg](./files/thumb_1095_1d4afd8c723fde542e158a8d8f12ec45)
![P1120756ad.jpg (353.9 KiB) Viewed 3371 times P1120756ad.jpg](./files/thumb_1095_13b01f1bbdfd5ec97dbf1600d90303d0)
![P1120756bd.jpg (394.77 KiB) Viewed 3371 times P1120756bd.jpg](./files/thumb_1095_a36bbe1c86526bcb83c01c70ac0950df)
![P1120862ad.jpg (302.02 KiB) Viewed 3371 times P1120862ad.jpg](./files/thumb_1095_d1c2793cec6c28f61c423787b8b2e697)
So, does this complicated process start before the larva has even fully pupated? I hope it is clear enough from these shots - it only seems to be the 2 legs that show wing outlines?
Re: Pauline
Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 7:20 pm
by Vince Massimo
Hi Pauline, you are not imagining things, those are the embryonic wing cells developing. The first three segments of a larva behind the head each has a pair of true legs and will become the thorax of the adult butterfly. Segments 2 and 3 are where the wings are attached, which corresponds to the two groups of cells you can see. There is a very useful article by Pete on butterfly anatomy here
https://www.dispar.org/reference.php?id=6
I and others have made similar observations of these cells on Orange-tip larvae just before they pupate.
![Orange-tip larva.jpg (154.61 KiB) Viewed 3364 times Orange-tip larva](./files/thumb_3678_afb519e91d0dbe33b277afc382e0d1d6)
- Orange-tip larva
Vince
Re: Pauline
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 9:05 am
by Pauline
That's incredible Vince and I can't believe I haven't noticed it before given the number of species I have reared. (I am assuming it is the same in all species but perhaps more obvious in some than others?). So, those changes actually start in the larval stage (presumably final instar?). I have been looking at some of my previous shots and started with OT simply because you mentioned it. These shots of an OT in the midst of pupating seem to show that those embryonic wings of the larva have already expanded to some extent and are much larger already. Fascinating! Thanks for the links too which are really interesting.
Re: Pauline
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 5:20 am
by Pauline
In the garden over the last few days I have recorded Large Skipper, Small Skipper (now know where these came from!) Small Copper (for the first time
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
), Ringlet, Meadow Brown, Gatekeeper, Red Admiral, Brimstone (one of mine perhaps from the Alder Buckthorn?), Comma, SWF, Large White, Small White - GVW have been conspicuous by their absence so far this year - and Hummingbird Hawk-moth. Sometimes I had the camera handy, other times I was too busy:
I have also come across a few moths around the local area:
Box moth in my Hawthorn:
Yellow-tail?
Blood-vein?
Yellow shell?
and in my conservatory a fresh Old Lady:
along with a Damselfly (Azure?)
Cinnibar moth larva:
Re: Pauline
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 5:37 pm
by Pauline
I now have a really bad infestation of Red Mites to deal with and despite spending 5 hours today spraying the birds' accommodation I am probably only 25% done. The upshot of that is for the time being I don't even have time to watch the garden butterflies
However, before this latest 'challenge' I was able to escape for an hour to Chalton Down which is usually deserted. This time a couple were watching the birds and butterflies and in chatting to them he mentioned that there were hundreds of Six-belted Clearwing moths on the site, and even more interesting he said he had a lure with him which he very kindly offered to demonstrate for me. I was astonished as within about 15 secs of getting it out there were at least that many moths (if not more) flying around it. What surprised me the most was the size of these insects - I had expected them to be so much bigger........And, where did they all just come from????!!! Getting any shots was really tricky but I got a couple of record shots before the moths got bored and ......disappeared
![Shocked :shock:](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
Where did they all just go to? They didn't SEEM to fly off and I don't think they went down into the grass but I really couldn't follow them. I queried the size of one of them which was massive compared to the others. The gentleman assured me that the size could vary and confirmed it was indeed the same species but agreed it was quite huge. Anyway, for the record, a couple of shots including a poor one of the largest:
There were a few fresh Brown Argus there that caught my attention along with a pretty female Common Blue that was egg-laying:
Not sure what the plant is.
Re: Pauline
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 5:42 pm
by Padfield
Hi Pauline. Might your plant be restharrow? The leaves are the right shape, and restharrow is very hairy/spiny like that.
Guy
Re: Pauline
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2023 8:11 pm
by bugboy
I agree with Restharrow, it is a known alternative foodplant for Common Blue.
Re: Pauline
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2023 12:37 pm
by Pauline
Thank you Guy - I know even less about plants than I do about moths so I appreciate any help offered.
Cheers Paul - good to have the ID confirmed.
Re monster Clearwing, I have been looking at photos online and it seems to me that the huge moth is a female? I am puzzled tho' as to why a female would be attracted to a lure emitting pheromones intended for males. Perhaps Neil or others with experience could shed some light on this?
The weather here has been very variable and is just one of the reasons I haven't been out much lately. This is from yesterday:
I have a few shots taken locally which are really nothing special but in the absence of anything else they will have to do
Lovely fresh Peacock - not a mark on it:
Re: Pauline
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2023 4:32 pm
by David M
Pauline wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 12:37 pm...I have a few shots taken locally which are really nothing special but in the absence of anything else they will have to do..
Au contraire, Pauline. That female
icarus is absolutely divine and it is rare to see
such a lustrous Peacock.
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
Re: Pauline
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:04 pm
by Pauline
You're very generous David. Today I had 3 Peacocks emerge in one of my sheds, presumably the larva from my nettles but the shed is at the other side of my house, quite a distance from the nettles. The Peacock pupa I was 'watching' also emerged overnight so no photos there - just as well I already have a good set of shots of a Peacock emerging.
My small window of opportunity for getting out doesn't always equate with good weather and such was the case yesterday. A friend, new to butterflies, wanted to see SSB, so with the rain teeming down we set off for Bramshott, 5 mins away. In the first 15 mins we saw 2 males and 1 female. One of the males was surprisingly fresh so we took some shots.
Earlier I had spotted a quite attractive moth which may (or may not) be a Maple Prominent???
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Never seen one before.
By now we were both thoroughly soaked to the skin - I didn't even have a jacket with me - so after 30 mins we decided to call it a day.
Re: Pauline
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2023 4:55 pm
by Neil Freeman
Hi Pauline. Your moth is a Dusky Sallow. I have seen a couple of these up here over the years whilst out and about during the day but never had one in the garden.
I have also just seen your report including the Six-belted Clearwings. If the big one was a female, and that is quite possible going by the description, then I have no idea how or why it was by the lure. The only explanation I can think of is that it was just close by coincidence, or that it was actually a particularly large male. Like all moths, they can be quite variable in size.
Cheers,
Neil.
Re: Pauline
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:10 pm
by Pauline
Hi Neil - thanks for that ID. I just knew I wouldn't have it right
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
but having just looked at shots of Dusky Sallow they do look very variable.
Re Clearwings - another awful shot just to put the size difference into context. I'd like to be able to say I'm fairly confident (from descriptions online) that it is a female but in all honesty, when it comes to moths, I haven't much confidence at all
Reckon I'm going to have to get some of those lures!
Re: Pauline
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2023 7:11 pm
by Katrina
Great shots of the SSB
Re: Pauline
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2023 7:14 pm
by Wurzel
Great to see the Silver-studs still going strong Goldie
![Cool 8)](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
the ones round my way have faded pretty quickly - possibly because they're on scratchy heather and not lush grass
Have a goodun
Wurzel
Re: Pauline
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 4:21 am
by Pauline
Thank you Katrina - I was half expecting them all to be very worn so to find a fresh male in that weather was a bonus. Not sure what effect that storm yesterday will have had tho'.
Re: Pauline
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 7:16 am
by trevor
Great selection of species recently Pauline.
A
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
for that 'blue' female Common blue, and another
for your Silver Studded Blues, a species I missed this year.
Lovely shots too,
Trevor.
Re: Pauline
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2023 6:43 pm
by Pauline
Thank you Trevor - I sympathise (and empathise) with you missing the SSB this year. I have also missed out on many species but there is always next season
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
. I am spending more time here and today in the garden I saw the most enormous fly. Honestly, I have never seen one so big - ever! I took various shots and I'm now regretting getting as close as I did as I think it is some sort of Horsefly
![Evil or Very Mad :evil:](./images/smilies/icon_evil.gif)
It was very clumsy tho' and stayed around quite a while on the sheds and on a lilac bush. I was attracted by the big green eyes - just like mine
Re: Pauline
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:54 am
by Pauline
A quick visit to Chalton was incredibly stressful yesterday. I wasn't going to post this. I don't know how many locals visit and I shouldn't think many/any read this but you never know .... and it would be good for folk to be aware. Perhaps mention to others in the area.
Dan was on his way out as I arrived to get some wire cutters from his van. He and Anna (nice to meet you Anna) had found a deer tangled in a wire fence. Long story short - quite let down by various wildlife organisations but a couple of ladies from the farm kindly offered help. We managed to cut the deer free but the wire was still embedded in and tangled around a bleeding leg when it escaped. At least it now has access to shade, food and water but wound might become infected and it may get the wire caught on something. I'm told Simon the farmer will shoot it if he finds it (which may be the best thing depending on circumstances). If you're visiting with or without a dog (Flossie might be good here!) perhaps just keep an eye open. If seen Hydestile Animals is closest and experienced or PM me. Still gutted this morning
Re: Pauline
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2023 9:18 pm
by Wurzel
I think your Horsefly is a Dark Giant Pauline
Tabanus sudeticus. I had one land one me at Bentley Wood once and I had to stay still, not so it wouldn't bite me but so Philzoid could get a shot of it
![Shocked :shock:](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
Luckily I think it was a male as they don't bite
Have a goodun
Wurzel
Re: Pauline
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 3:49 pm
by Pauline
Cheers Wurzel - if I'd even considered it was a Horsefly I definitely wouldn't have approached it but it was just so slow and clumsy. I had a heavy sweatshirt on but I doubt that would have saved me!!!!! Never seen an insect that size.
Still too much to do! Still rarely getting out of the garden! As well as thoudands of mites to eliminate my windscreen cracked and I have a wasps nest by my main entrance
![Evil or Very Mad :evil:](./images/smilies/icon_evil.gif)
. In all the time I have been here I have never seen a Grass Snake. Today, I found one in my driveway - sadly dead
![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
. I am not sure if the guy who came to treat the wasps hit it with his van as it made its way to my pond but I can't imagine how else it would have ended up there. Quite a fair size - 34":
Thankfully the garden has been teeming with butterflies - more than I have seen in a long while. I can't quite get over how many Red Admiral and Peacock are around so at least I can reach for the camera when I have a few spare minutes. Some shots from the garden over the last few days: