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Old Wolf wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:59 pm Hello Guy, I think the is the Moth an African Peach Moth - Egybolis Vaillantina.

Interestingly I was as Stratford Butterfly farm recently and still have the identification sheet on my desk in front of me and I thought I recognised it from in there. I cannot claim to be a tropical moth expert

That's the one! Thank you!

Guy

Good to see you getting back into your old routine, Guy.

Is it normal for circe to be on the wing so late?

Don't know about Switzerland, but I would expect the species in small numbers in the southern third of France in mid-September; I've seen it as late as 22 September there.

In Var it flies regularly in September. The latest recordings I have are from 29 September from several locations, and we leave each year at the end of September, so it is quite probably continuing into October.
Roger

David M wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:13 amIs it normal for circe to be on the wing so late?

As Roger and Matsukaze say, yes - it flies well into September. But I haven't seen any since that last report, so I suspect it has succumbed to the continuous rain we had recently.

This last week has been sunny, though clouds and showers returned today. Most days I work morning and afternoon but yesterday my first lesson wasn't until 16h00, so I went to check the cardinals in the valley. At first, it seemed they were no more, as none were flying round the vineyards where they had been so numerous two or three weeks ago. But then, in pandora headquarters, I found four or five still cruising around like animated ghosts - pale shadows of the creatures that emerged from the chrysalis back in May. They were all males, and fiercely defending their now pointless territories (I suspect all the females are mated and either dead or out laying), only occasionally stopping for a few seconds. Here are a couple of record shots.





Other species still flying in that part of the valley are Queen of Spain (very common), red admiral (very common), clouded yellow, Berger's clouded yellow, small white, Adonis blue, common blue, wall and speckled wood. Because of time limitations, I cycled rather than walked to the site, so missed the tree grayling spots. This species must still be flying, but I have the feeling that in general things are closing down for the winter faster than in previous years.


(one of the numerous Queens still flying)


(walls fly in the valley as late as December)


(Adonis blues will be around a while yet)

We had a bit of sun on 3rd October, when I went up the mountain instead of down. There, a very few Adonis and common blues and a single Berger's clouded yellow were the only butterflies still on the wing.

Guy

Thanks for the confirmation, Guy. Looks like your Cardinals are quite content (if a little battered) in October!!

Which brood would the December Wall Browns be? I'm guessing the spring brood is quite late in that part of the world, thus having a knock-on effect on the second and third?

Still a great array of species Guy and I love the way the light caught the Cardinal - all golden
" but I have the feeling that in general things are closing down for the winter faster than in previous years." I feel the same is happening around my way too Guy, down to Specklies and the odd Admiral looking forward to next year already

Have a goodun

Wurzel

Hi David. You're right - walls fly relatively late in the Rhône Valley, compared with the earliness of other species there. Counting broods is tricky when there is such a range of altitudes, but I imagine the individuals I see in December are at least the great grandchildren of the first ones to appear in spring.

Hi Wurzel. Yes, the cardinal's tarnished bronze sheen really does gleam when the butterflies get old!

As I only arrived in Leysin in September, I don't know much about the local butterflies yet. I've been casing the joint, looking for suitable walks and plants, and evidence of early stages, but I won't know for sure until next year, when things start flying. Today I did have a happy breakthrough. Taking a track in the village that I've never taken before, I saw abundant, young blackthorn in a field, the other side of a barbed wire fence. I obviously wasn't supposed to enter the field, but some of the blackthorn grew next to the fence and I quickly established it had brown hairstreak eggs on it:





Here's a close-up of that second one:



The altitude is 1328m - so quite high for the species.

This is very good news. The track is just five minutes from my house, so when the caterpillars are about I'll be able to go up at night and track them with UV.

Guy

Sun and temperatures of 23°C were forecast for the valley today, so I headed down to see if a third brood of rosy grizzled skipper was flying. But instead of blue skies, it rained. It's unusual for all the forecasting sites to get it so wrong, but that's life! Here's a spurge hawk moth caterpillar digesting its cold breakfast:





And here a red kite, hunting over the cloudy hills:



At about 14h00 I decided to head back along the valley, intending to go all the way to Lausanne and pick up spices at my favourite Indian shop. But no sooner did I get in the train than the sun came out. I changed plans and decided to get off at Montreux, from where I could cycle back to Aigle via a pale clouded yellow site. Berger's and ordinary clouded yellows fly into October and later, but I didn't know if pale clouded did. I arrived while it was still warm, and the field was covered in clover (mostly not in flower), but only clouded yellows were flying, not pale clouded:



Pale clouded is not really resident in Switzerland and although I see it at this site every year, I think it depends on migration.

Here is a female red-crested pochard (I think) swimming along the creek:



Guy

I sense you're really looking forward to familiarising yourself with your new wild 'neighbourhood', Guy. I'm sure you'll unearth a few surprises, although Brown Hairstreaks flying at 1,300m+ is a big one for starters!

Thanks David. I doubt there'll be too many surprises left this year, but you're right, the brown hairstreak eggs were an unexpected bonus.

Still in the spirit of clouded yellows, I thought I'd see if palaeno was still flying today. I now live closer than before to a bilberry bog where moorland clouded yellows, cranberry blues and cranberry fritillaries all fly. It's not very high, and if palaeno was still flying anywhere, I thought it should be here. Minnie and I had a great walk, extending over a large area of bog and hillside, and though there were plenty of cloudies around, no palaeno. I did think I had one, when a lemon yellow Colias with solid dark borders flew past, but when I eventually got a zoom shot of it at rest it turned out to be a clouded yellow - just the wrong colour! During the afternoon I saw many dozens of red admirals, all heading south-west in determined fashion. Just this one stopped on the path ahead of me:



Finally, when we got back to the bus stop, I noticed there were several rather pale Colias flying on a sunny bank, among crocea. At first I thought they were phicomone, but they lacked any obvious dark shading above. I was only able to get one record shot before the bus came and my tentative conclusion is that they were hyale:



They appeared to be males but were much paler than you would expect (perhaps age) and none looked at all like alfacariensis. I will never know for certain, unless I can establish next year that alfacariensis doesn't fly here (it doesn't look right for the species, being mostly peaty bog).

Guy

Lovely colouration on the Cloudy-esque butterfly Guy whether its Berger's or Pale It's actually a bit of a relief that we (generally) only have Clouded Yellow over here sometimes Guy

Have a goodun

Wurzel

Thanks Wurzel. For comparison, here are a couple of certified Berger's from my local mountain, today:





In my experience, it really is possible to separate Berger's and pale clouded by wing shape and 'jizz', and I still feel the picture in my previous post shows pale clouded. But I will definitely check next summer to be sure.

I also saw a couple of Adonis blues on my local mountain: a male and a female, both at some distance. I was late to go up (about 16h00) and things were probably already thinking about bed. Every day, when I get the train up from the valley to my house, I pass a sunny patch of flowers where walls, Queens, whites and yellows fly. All species were flying today, with at least four Queens.

Guy

I think I'd only be ale to differentiate hyale from alfacariensis based on the habitat they were flying in, Guy. I hope you can find both next year and let us know what features you are looking for to tell them apart.

So envious you still have Adonis Blues around in late October!

I would also be interested to know the external features to differentiate hyale from alfacariensis. It’s easy in Var because hyale doesn’t fly there. The degree of curvature of the alfacariensis forewing margin and the degree of pointedness of the forewing apex are quite variable in the Var alfacariensis, and that is what they almost certainly are, as hyale has never been recorded there.

The books quote these two factors for hyale (straight margin, pointed apex) and this is to a large extent true in most cases. But I have seen alfacariensis in Var that have really quite straight margins, to the extent that if I saw them in hyale territory, I would be tempted to assume them as such.

Alfacariensis is generally a stronger lemon yellow, and hyale rather paler, hence the name, although hyale's "pale" name came from its comparison with crocea, not alfacariensis.

I have always found hyale to be difficult to identify for certain, mainly because it does not fly in the region in which I spend most time. However, this year, passing through Côte d’Or I spotted a field of blue flowers with some yellow butterflies, did a quick about turn and had a closer look. The field was Lucerne and there were some 40 or 50 yellow Colias butterflies. Some were kind enough to be egg-laying on the Lucerne, which absolutely confirmed hyale. Were they all hyale? Couldn’t alfacariensis be there too? My feeling is that they were probably all hyale. That seems to be backed up by the Côte d’Or atlas that rather shows alfacariensis not recorded at this location (mind you, the distribution dots for hyale weren’t totally convincing either). I will be looking closely at the images over the next months, especially one shot of a female upperside (lucky snap of courtship).

My point is that some of these putative hyale had straight margins, but others showed a degree of curvature, enough to preclude hyale if one assumes that a non-straight margin says alfacariensis.

Our mutual friend in Lyon (Tim) is of the opinion that only egg-laying or breeding from the caterpillar stage is indicative of differentiation. His images of the respective larvae have been used extensively in publications and websites. He also has images of hyale which show significant degrees of curvature.

In passing, maybe one of the reasons why hyale is rather uncommon is that Lucerne is a crop and if it is harvested at the wrong time, hyale will go with it.

Roger

apologies - just noticed this is Guy's personal diary, not a species-specific thread

I understand that hyale has had a spectacularly good year in western Europe, turning up in locations it hasn't been seen in for decades.

Thank you David, Roger and Matsukaze for the comments on hyale. Roger, I remember discussing this with Tim many years ago, and at that time we were talking about the straightness or curvature of the margins. Since then, however, I have decided this is misleading - that although a straighter outer margin is common in hyale, it is actually the overall proportions and shape of the wing which count. I began measuring photos of certified, pinned specimens to establish the relevant ratios, but got side-tracked by something else and never finished that project. I ought to go back to it. My own experience is that because alfacariensis is so familiar - it is by far the dominant species in the Alps - hyale always looks unfamiliar and exotic. Its jizz is different, to the extent I nearly always think, 'What is that?' rather than, 'Is that hyale or alfacariensis'. I will make a point of going back to the bus stop where I saw these latest hyale next year, to see if alfacariensis really is absent there.

No chance of either species flying on my local mountain today:











Those were all taken above about 1700m.

Guy

Gorgeous views, Guy. It appears it's gone from summer to winter almost overnight - I heard central Europe has had a record-breaking warm October, so I'm guessing that included Switzerland. Minnie seems to enjoy the snow (though I suppose this amount of cover doesn't overwhelm her relatively short legs... ).

Cheers,

Dave

That is a wonderful winter wonderland scene Guy Definitely beats the dullness and showers here at the moment Thanks for the Berger's shots as well - interesting to read up on sepcies I've not seen for a good number of years now

Have a goodun

Wurzel

Thanks Dave and Wurzel. Yes, Switzerland had its warmest October on record, I think. Let's hope November has begun as it intends to continue.

The great thing about the Alps is that you can pass from one climate to another just by going up or down the mountain. Yesterday, I went up, because I wanted Minnie to remember the snow and it looked rather grim in the valley anyway. Today I went down, and along to Valais, where 13 species of butterfly were flying. Here is a selection.

Adonis blues are still flying in good numbers:



Here is a female:



And here a male and female together:



Chapman's blues were also numerous:



The two were frequently together, as there were relatively few nectar flowers around:



This is a northern brown argus, another species that often flies late into the autumn:



And this is a small copper:



I was surprised to see a comma:



But not so surprised to find a grayling:



I've regularly seen graylings into November, though I think 6th might be my latest. I couldn't get a better angle on this one without falling off a cliff. I also saw a single tree grayling today.

Clouded and Berger's clouded yellows were both on the wing. This is a male clouded yellow:



This is a female helice:



Here is a clouded yellow (the same male as above) with an Adonis blue:



Walls are always around late in the year - even into December:



I saw a couple of painted ladies, but strangely, no red admirals:



This was not my winter Queen of Spain site and I saw just one of this species, in flight. I also saw a single silver-washed fritillary pass in flight. This was the most surprising sighting of the day. It was gliding, more like a cardinal than a silver-washed fritillary, and passed close enough for me to see sex brands clearly on the upperside. Size-wise, it was largish, but distinctly smaller than cardinal and I thought smaller than silver-washed too. In colour, it was faded orange (not tarnished bronze). The only options are high brown fritillary (I've seen dark green at the same site in December) and silver-washed, given the conspicuous sex brands, and my money is on silver-washed, just because that's what I thought it was as it flew past.

The weather was not brilliant, with a maximum temperature of 11°C and significant cloudy spells:



Around us, the snow-covered mountains reminded us winter was on its way.



Guy