www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

padfield wrote: ad hominem attacks are generally bad argument

I agree, we shouldn't use ad hominem attacks on the small-minded, attention-seeking sexist idiot.

I can only reiterate what I said last night: "Fight fire with fire!"

It is just not possible to confine discussion to the issues and ignore the person. As far as I am concerned THE issue is L-G himself. He is quite unbelievable.

Might L-G be ill perhaps? If that is so, then he would have my sympathy and I would take back this and earlier comments I have made.

Jack

Lee Hurrell wrote:

johnv wrote:I see he has had another go today at BC and conservationists in general.
http://www.liddellgrainger.org.uk/ian/M ... G2012.html

And he is STILL publishing private contact details...

Indeed he is, and Mr Foster's e-mail address is, I suspect, a private one which he does not wish to see emblazoned on any public website, let alone that of a member of parliament.

Perhaps someone should publish his private home telephone number in a similar manner and see how he likes that.

Jack Harrison wrote: Might L-G be ill perhaps?

How do you mean?

Jack Harrison wrote:Might L-G be ill perhaps? If that is so, then he would have my sympathy and I would take back this and earlier comments I have made.

Don't hold your breath; his ailment is chronic. Here's an April 2010 Grauniad article about his outpourings and another, from politicalscrapbook.net in June 2010, to more puerility.

It seems that Cameron is already aware of him.

Paul

So, it looks possible that L-G might just have Tourette's Syndrome:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourette_syndrome
I can't say that actual condition was in the back of my mind when I wondered whether L-G might be ill, but from what little I know about the syndrome it would fit.

So if L-G is ill, then he cannot take the direct blame and should attract not our condemnation but our sympathy. The blame has to focus on those who selected him as the Constituency candidate and also on the hierarchy in the Conservative Party who have not quietly arranged his retirement on grounds of sickness. But it makes little difference to us butterfly enthusiasts who really is to blame but the situation needs to be sorted and quickly.

Jack

Pawpawsaurus wrote:

Jack Harrison wrote:Might L-G be ill perhaps? If that is so, then he would have my sympathy and I would take back this and earlier comments I have made.

Don't hold your breath; his ailment is chronic. Here's an April 2010 Grauniad article about his outpourings and another, from politicalscrapbook.net in June 2010, to more puerility.

It seems that Cameron is already aware of him.

Paul

Perhaps Jack has a point after all. The quote I reproduce is taken from the Guardian article. I needn't make any comment as the text speaks for itself:

"The details of the long-running row are complicated and possibly irrelevant to anyone living outside Somerset, but they include calling the hapless Jones a total twit, Judas, a little man smaller than life and twice as creepy, mad, in need of medical help (with a helpful link to a Tourette's website), plus false allegations of adultery, lying and corruption and an insulting YouTube video, now taken down."

Now, given that David Cameron himself had to climb down from a comment he made in the Commons regarding Tourette's, one has to presume that a far less senior MP ought to be censured with disdainful alacrity.

What I'd really like to see is for him to field a kick off in a rugby league game and be forced to run the ball back into the defensive line with the welcome committe having been pre-briefed on his propensity to mock the afflicted.

The more I learn, the more I just know this guy is a grade A pillock. To think someone like that can hold down a seat in Parliament is a matter of serious concern. Public figures are currently being pilloried for refusing to shake hands after racist comments have been passed, yet it seems Tourette's sufferers have to wait their turn for the Establishment to make theirs as popular a cause célèbre.

Shame.

Sadly this dishonest and reprehensible fool is representing W. Somerset, where the local Council (probably with his backing) are planning to sell off one of the finest landscape and wildlife areas in the region.
I got the following from 38 Degrees (theyt co-ordinated much of the campaign against the sale of the Forestry land last year.

I visit the Quantocks regularly, and they are beautiful area. It woulod be sad to see it become a mono-culture desert like so much of the once amazing South West.

Sign the on line petition please!!!

I have just saw this thread, not caught up much with what is going on but I signed it, although I have never been there or know much about this area, felt it necessary to help try and save it.

Jack Harrison wrote:So, it looks possible that L-G might just have Tourette's Syndrome, Jack

Jack,
are you serious? Don't you think that maybe you are giving him too much leeway? Surely Tourette's would explain verbal outbursts, but not written, and certainly it is no excuse for stating and promoting inaccuracies or somewhat unfounded personal attacks that in the longrun could have some effect on conservation funding (in the worse case scenario). I do wonder why anyone would vote for this MP considering his past history: but then he is conservative.

In one of his recent outbursts, he says that Butterfly Conservation is 'big business' (I think you'll find that MP's salaries and Oil is big business, and Butterfly Conservation - even as a charity, is way down the pecking order). He even questions the spending of the donations to BC. Remember: one man's idiotic statement - consistently published online - could yet have a bad effect on donations or BC publicity.

Given his proven record for 'creating' false accounts and comments, I would guess that the statement from 'an exmoor butterfly' re: Grabbist Hill on his recent blog is most likely written by him. Notice how this mailer didn't even have the courtesy to use their real name, unlike the pro-butterfly writers who had their comments 'unceremoniously' put up on IL-G's site, presumably without permission.

Michael

Michael wrote:

Jack,are you serious?

I'm not a medic so have no expertise. But L-G has been behaving/writing so strangely that I simply wonder if he might have a psychological problems. That "helpful link" to Tourette's mentioned earlier:
http://politicalscrapbook.net/2010/06/i ... nger-blog/
simply got me wondering along specific lines.

I do incidentally have some experience of (not Tourette's) psychological problems with people close to me. They can behave in very odd ways.

Whether or not L-G has Tourette's, he certainly needs to be monitored and perhaps given help if there is in fact an underlying reason for his weird actions.

However, none of his bosses seems prepared to do anything. Look at one of L-G's recent ramblings against butterfly enthusiasts.

http://www.liddellgrainger.org.uk/ian/M ... G2012.html

Jack

I reckon it's more likely that he's got Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Arrogant, lack of empathy, propensity to never believe in one's fallibility and if challenged resort to humiliation tactics, inflated sense of self-importance, demanding of others' admiration, misplaced sense of natural entitlement, difficulties in socialising in a conventional way, abnormally extreme self-involvement....

Could have been written for ILG!

This is actually rather funny but somehow seems inappropriate for an MPs website.

http://www.liddellgrainger.org.uk/image ... ancing.gif

Jack

Just what exactly is this MPs motivation for his clumsy attempt to descredit the generally popular 'conservation' movement (B.C. in particular) by using the trusty tool of ridicule?

I liked Wurzel's earlier comments, and have no doubt that Ian Liddell-Grainger and/or his chums would like to get their hands on land without having to worry about endangered species etc before they bung in their planning applications.

But why B.C. in particular? Maybe the reponse to the sell off of Forestry Commision land made him resign himself to write off the populace as a nation of tree huggers. But with the prospect of the Quantocks unrolling before his £££eyes I can't help the suspicion he's thinking who cares about 'unimproved pasture', after all it can look a bit unkempt to some eyes.

From what's been posted honesty isn't his strong point, but maybe we are being unfair - perhaps he is a natural genius and the application of unbridled 'free market' economics to conservation is something all of us idiots have missed?

hilary wrote: But why B.C. in particular? Maybe the reponse to the sell off of Forestry Commision land made him resign himself to write off the populace as a nation of tree huggers. But with the prospect of the Quantocks unrolling before his £££eyes I can't help the suspicion he's thinking who cares about 'unimproved pasture', after all it can look a bit unkempt to some eyes.

You bring up some good points about his motivation.
Looking at his website and others I notice he is strongly in favour of hunting.
Which brings me back to the proposed Quantocks land sell off by Somerset County Council.
One of my friends was a hunt-sab and mentioned that these areas owned by the council were off limits to the hunt and many a deer was able to escape into them from either direction. The hunts hated this.
Let's just hope the likes of ILG and his hunting buddies don't get their hands on this land.

johnv wrote: Looking at his website and others I notice he is strongly in favour of hunting.
Which brings me back to the proposed Quantocks land sell off by Somerset County Council.
One of my friends was a hunt-sab and mentioned that these areas owned by the council were off limits to the hunt and many a deer was able to escape into them from either direction. The hunts hated this.

You may well have put your finger on it there.

I can now confirm that the Guardian has reported a little bit on this MP's behaviour (see link or quoted below, Hugh Muir's diary), thanks to Patrick and Hugh.

Michael

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012 ... NTCMP=SRCH

• Finally, to remember in your prayers, Ian Liddell-Grainger, the Conservative member for Bridgwater and West Somerset. Something seems to be troubling him. The MP has been using the might of his office to attack Jenny Plackett. What special evil does she represent? Let us out her. She is the project officer for the charity Butterfly Conservation, and heads its Two Moors Threatened Butterfly project.


• Butterfly Conservation hopes for an £18,000 grant from the Exmoor National Park partnership fund. Liddell-Grainger is agin it. And that's his right. But having attacked the group (president: Sir David Attenborough) in his local paper, the MP turned to his website to post a few unfunny funnies – a recipe for "Butterfly Fancier Pie" – and to mount a bizarre verbal and pictorial personal attack on Jenny Plackett, or "Cost-a-Plackett", as he calls her. For anyone minded to join in the witless abuse, the Tory reproduces her direct number. He's been asked to desist but he won't. It's all quite sad really. The Tories may or may not be the nasty party these days, but he certainly seems a pretty nasty MP.

Good article in the Guardian. At least somebody other than ukb and BC has noticed his weird behaviour.

From the Guardian

Finally, to remember in your prayers, Ian Liddell-Grainger

Well I can't quite endorse that. However, while I would certainly wish L-G a speedy recovery (of his senses and health if that is where the problem is), being non-religious, I can hardly offer prayers!

Jack

Jack Harrison wrote:Good article in the Guardian. At least somebody other than ukb and BC has noticed his weird behaviour.Jack

I can take some credit here, because I contacted Patrick Barkham (author of 'The Butterfly Isles' and contributer to the Guardian) last week - who was away at the time. Patrick consulted with his editors when he got back. It just shows what a good guy Patrick is - as he responded to me straight away and kept me up to date with what his paper was going to do. I didn't pass on the info here until something was published.

I think the line about the prayers for ILG was slightly tongue-in-cheek (along the lines of 'feel sorry for this idiot' )

Michael

Good work, Michael. He can give it so let's see if he can also take it.

I could see that some good will come out of all this. Butterfly conservation (with the small 'c' - generalised term) has been the victim, the 'bullied'. That might be to our advantage. Nobody like a bully and there is usually some sympathy for the victim.

Jack