www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

We agree to disagree,Susie!
I found todays programme more interesting than the last,because it was aimed at ordinary people,with ordinary gardens, showing them simple measures they can undertake to make their gardens more polinator friendly. Not many of us have a large meadow to play with,but most of us could probably make a few simple changes.
I work in a plant nursery,and i always try explain things as simply as i can. I could go into all the horticultural jargon and all the long names etc,but this is probably too complicated for most people. The simple message of planting single flowers,not doubles,and having plants in flower for as long as possible,is something i have told my customers countless times.
But that's just my opinion!

I'd never seen a hand-held sucrose refractometer, but it was good to see one of the bedding flowers committee members take it on with such gusto (no surprise how well the Hebe's came out in her tests). For me it's always nice to learn something new...

However, I'm not sure I expect much from next weeks (last) episode, as Sarah moves into the cityscapes.

Michael

Michaeljf wrote: However, I'm not sure I expect much from next weeks (last) episode, as Sarah moves into the cityscapes.

Michael

I hope she highlights the huge amount of time and money spent by us (our taxes, through our public authorities) on keeping large, publicly-owned spaces, which are potential wildlife areas, as wildlife deserts, just like the mown village green we saw in the first episode.....
N

This programme was worth it for me, for example learning that I need to plant single flowers instead of double headed flowers.

essexbuzzard wrote:We agree to disagree,Susie!
I found todays programme more interesting than the last,because it was aimed at ordinary people,with ordinary gardens, showing them simple measures they can undertake to make their gardens more polinator friendly. Not many of us have a large meadow to play with,but most of us could probably make a few simple changes.
I work in a plant nursery,and i always try explain things as simply as i can. I could go into all the horticultural jargon and all the long names etc,but this is probably too complicated for most people. The simple message of planting single flowers,not doubles,and having plants in flower for as long as possible,is something i have told my customers countless times.
But that's just my opinion!

I guess you are right. I've been interested in gardening to encourage critters into my garden for a while now so I take some things for granted.

It would be nice if she could stress how good it is to plant flowers which encourage either the food of insects or is the food plant of insects but I suppose suggesting to a gardener that they actively encourage aphids into their garden so they get hoverflies isn't going to go down well with people who aren't hardcore nature nuts like ourselves!

I agree DMS, i was very impressed with this one. ok so no meadows, which i love seeing kindred spirits susie, but i was hugely impressed by the reaction of the Harrogate bunch and the RHS. Alas what didn't impress me was the bed itself but it was made up for afterwards by the other work they did. good luck to them i say. i'm looking forward to the next one.

Chris

The problem with that bed was they filled it up with mainly rudbeckia, which doesn't really peak untill the summer is ending! Had they used bedding daliah's,which flower from June onwards,and swopped african marigolds for english and single french ones,they may have had a much earlier,longer lasting display which the bees etc can use.

I am going to look up the ornamental angelica they grew in the bed and grow that this year. I've grown normal angelica before and it was amazing just how many hoverflies, ladybirds, etc., it attracted. Trouble was it must have liked my garden as it was about nine foot tall and as wide! Hardly anything else grew in that bed as it swamped it.

i've had rudbeckia in 2 gardens now and if i'm honest i haven't found it particulaly successful. i'd like to hear others experiences with it
Chris

I've had the odd butterfly on rudbeckia, generally a meadow brown. It's very pretty and good for colour late in the summer and into autumn but I wouldn't say it was great.

One thing I noticed, they kept mentioning "nectar rich plants" sure that is fine for adult insects, BUT they have not yet mentioned (not sure if they will in the last episode) the actual foodplants of the insects, without those, the adults would not be there to feed on the flowers. These are not always the nice flowers, these are often the "weeds" like nettles, docks, grounsels, ivy-leaved toadflax, sorrel etc... not the plants they keep mentioning. If you want the adults around, you have to have these around too.

They still emphasized non native flowers to use (some anyway), a few are fine, but what about the more important native wild flowers which are insects have fed on long before the other plants were brought in from abroad?

I agree DMS, i was very impressed with this one. ok so no meadows, which i love seeing kindred spirits susie, but i was hugely impressed by the reaction of the Harrogate bunch and the RHS. Alas what didn't impress me was the bed itself but it was made up for afterwards by the other work they did. good luck to them i say. i'm looking forward to the next one.

I agree too, but was there a native flower among them? I can't really remember. Without more native flowers + the other not so pretty plants our native insects need to survive, its not the same for me.

I am part of wildplant recording in Ireland, and there is more people saying now that not to use wild flower mix seeds you can buy in shops or on-line as these often contain British wild flowers, not true native Irish genetic plants, I agree that these wildflower mixes can taint the genetics of local populations of the same plant if it exists in the area as a true wild plant, not a seeded plant from a potential seed not from Ireland.

I agree on both counts, Dave.
I think a lot of people on this site feel that way too; we are preaching amongst the converted.
What I do find encouraging about the programme (apart from being able to get it aired) is that it does highlight and offer alternatives to current thinking and practices.
It also shows how far the general public have to go, before what we see as "common sense" solutions, do in fact become just that!
Let's see what the final programme has to offer...
N

when we talk about foodplants i think we are aiming more at butterflies and moths rather than general pollinators, i know in my garden the most aphids i find are on the (inherited) ornamental roses(vapourer moth, Early thorn caterpillars not to mention sawflies) so not all non native plants are all bad. lets face it would any of us be without a buddliea? (also good for mullien moth caterpillars and have had Pale brindled beauty also) Fuscia, bees love as does elephant hawk moth caterpillar. Verbena bonariensis, wallflower bowles mauve are another 2 non natives i wouldn't be without. another one last year that i found extremely popular with all manor of insects was pyracantha. so, for gardens at least which i hope the last program will focus on, i think we have only just scratched the surface of what can be done. I am by no-means expert in any of this but from my limited experience a mix of natives and "imports" wouldn't nessecarily make for an ecologically balanced garden but it certainly enhances the nectar available.

Chris

edit: would be intrigued as to how important grasses are in the grand scheme of things.

Chris, I agree with you. I used to live in an area that had snowberry as part of a hedgerow. Non native yes, but it is related to honeysuckle, so the insects that use honeysuckle as a foodplant, use this as well. I often found caterpillars on them at night and leaf mines on the leaves. Only downside to it compared to honeysuckle is the lack of real flowers like honeysuckle has, plus it can spread all over the place if left unchecked.

I had two buddliea in my old garden which attracted a lot, butterflies/bees/moths etc...

I didn't mean all non native plants are bad, as some are quite good, I just meant that we should favour the native plants over non native first, then think about the good non natives after. All about striking a good balance.

Bees love snowberry plus I have heard that holly blue sometimes lay on it but I have yet to witness that myself.

I am definitely pro a mixture in the garden. I like native and non-native plants as the non natives give a far longer flowering season. I try to have something in bloom all year round if possible so any bumblebees which may be around in the winter months can have a meal.

I try to grow butterfly food plants too but these need a bit more thought. Doesn't matter how much horseshoe vetch I grow, I ain't gonna get an adonis blue in the garden. I have had a certain amount of success though and there is something particularly satisfying knowing some of your butterflies are home grown.

Also what I meant to say in my last post about favouring native plants was that I feel that less non native plants should be planted in public places and more native wildflowers and plants should be there such as at the sides of roads in towns, villages and cities and places like parks (like what they did around the Olympic stadium in London with sowing the wildflower seeds around it) as these are usually closer to actual wild areas than your garden might be and some non native plants might spread to the wild areas. A site near where I live is a wetland nature reserve and a few years back, 3 tonnes of Azollas had to be removed from one of the ponds (Azolla is an highly invasive American pond plant) as was Parrot's Feather (Myriophyllum aquaticum) a aquatic plant native to the Amazon, which was probably brought in as a garden pond plant and it escaped and now people want garden centers to try and enccourage selling native pond plants rather than non natives because of how some have spread to wild ponds.

In your garden it would be good to have a mix of non native and native.

I try to grow butterfly food plants too but these need a bit more thought. Doesn't matter how much horseshoe vetch I grow, I ain't gonna get an adonis blue in the garden. I have had a certain amount of success though and there is something particularly satisfying knowing some of your butterflies are home grown.

I know what you mean, where I used to live, I grew rosebay willowherb but never had a elephant hawk-moth caterpillar on it (also had a fuchsia which did have the odd one or two on it) wonder if they prefer fuchsia over rosebay willowherb if its there?

Unfortunately I missed the first half tonight but thought the latter half was great. Looks like the recession is good for something after all.

Tonight's programme was the first in the series that I have seen. It is great to give this sort of thing exposure. East Lothian have been planting areas of meadow mix in parks and road verges for the last three years. One of these is on my transect route, but sadly, although it is very attractive to hover flies and bees I haven't recorded one butterfly there yet!
It is sad that with modern agricultural practices we are having to turn to our cities to provide habitat for wildlife. It is alarming to see the work the farmers have been doing here to improve the drainage in the fields this winter. They already plough right up to the hedges, which are cut to within an inch of their lives. The loss of set-aside and other environmental funding has had a very obvious dramatic impact on the local wildlife.
Our biodiversity officer is pleased when he sees plans to build houses on agricultural land as that will actually increase the biodiversity in the area! Very sad. One of the best habitats here now is the A1, which has had trees and shrubs planted along its verges. A linear oasis in a desert of wheat.

Horsham Council has won awards for the wild flower planting they have put in over the last few years and it is nice to see. They are doubling the size of our village and building on mainly agricultural land. I am a bit concerned oh how so many people will affect the nearby SsSi which is High Wood (the housing will run right up to it) and also the flood plain along the arun though. My other concern is the local hedgerows which do support a lot of butterflies as these are being chopped back and in some places ripped out even though as being ancient hedgerow it was supposed to be protected! These hedges support purple, white letter and brown hairstreak.

Susie wrote:Horsham Council has won awards for the wild flower planting they have put in over the last few years and it is nice to see. They are doubling the size of our village and building on mainly agricultural land. I am a bit concerned oh how so many people will affect the nearby SsSi which is High Wood (the housing will run right up to it) and also the flood plain along the arun though. My other concern is the local hedgerows which do support a lot of butterflies as these are being chopped back and in some places ripped out even though as being ancient hedgerow it was supposed to be protected! These hedges support purple, white letter and brown hairstreak.

Yes, I suppose it depends on how valuable the agricultural land was to wildlife. Here many of the hedges are hawthorn, only about three feet high by about eighteen inches wide!