www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

I'm surprised to learn of that Misha, I've not heard mention of it before. I recently read a bit about the climate on Portland. There they would expect only about 8 frosts a year, compared to the national average of around 55. So along the south coast, I suppose anything is possible. But the stinging nettle is however, a herbaceous perennial, so it has to die back to the root stock at some point. Unlike some perennials it does take a long time to die down. So it may give the impression, especially on the warmer south coast, that its here all year.

Here just an hour from the south coast, we've had 3 frosts, and the nettles look pretty unappetising already. I usually leave them where I can throughout the winter, and cut down the blackened old steams in the spring, as a surprising amount of ladybirds use the shrivelled up leafs to hibernate in.

Of the Red Admirals I've seen of late, only one was staying put. He was in an orchard with a supply of roting fruit, he's obviously decided this is where he will overwinter, as I see him on the same step, every time the sun comes out. All the others I've seen, sometimes in temperatures as low as 9c, were on the move south, only stopping briefly to feed on apples or dog poo.

Regards Gruditch

A few years ago I saw a Red Admiral basking on a conifer in morning November sun. There was frost on the ground and the shade temperature was a mere 2 degs C. In my experience, Red Admirals can be active at lower temperatures than any other British butterfly.

I had thought that the accepted idea is that Red Admirals don’t hibernate in the true sense as do Peacocks and Tortoiseshells but simply become dormant when the weather is really cold and will venture out in the milder spells to nectar on garden flowers thereby keeping up their fuel reserves. Doubtless the recent milder winters (with of course the exception of the last one) have helped. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more nectar sources available nowadays with the increased garden planting of winter flowering species such as pansies. This type of gardening has surely become much more popular in the past half century or so. Gruditch, you must be the expert on modern gardening trends.

Jack

Cyclamens and pansies are out now, but I've found that Red Admirals much prefer winter flowering shrubs like the evergreen viburnums. I have seen a Red Admirals, and Brimstone's on a Mahonia before, but they are much more popular with bubble bees. Saw a bubble bee on a Mahonia the other morning, in the shade, and it was still -1 . I begrudgingly picked up some dog poo off a clients lawn the other day, its that or forget were it is and step in it. I popped it into a kiddies bucked, when I next went passed there were two Red Ads in there.

Regards Gruditch

Jack Harrison wrote:Gruditch, you must be the expert on modern gardening trends.

Most of my clients have period homes, so the gardens are usually in keeping with the house, = cottage or formal gardens. I used to do a couple of gardens in town though, concrete, gravel, and that bl@@dy awful decking was the in thing.

Regards Gruditch

It seems like quite a few (myself included) have seen Red Admirals active in the winter months.

This led me to wonder whether the same was true a generation ago. It was always stated as an accepted fact that RAs couldn't survive British winters so I grew up believing just that. Yet, many people are seeing them these days and I find it hard to believe that the climate has changed SO dramatically in the space of a couple of decades.

David M:

I find it hard to believe that the climate has changed SO dramatically in the space of a couple of decades

But as I wrote, gardening habits have changed. That might be a vital part of the equation,

Jack

A few bumblebee species have started to become continuously-brooded in recent years. Winter-flowering exotics, particularly Mahonia, appear to be essential for this. Could garden plants be an essential ingredient in allowing adult Red Admirals to overwinter here?

http://www.bwars.com/Files%204%20downlo ... osheet.pdf

Butterflies that can't achieve a true, metabolic hibernation state (it is often stated that this is the case for red admirals, though I don't know what the evidence is) presumably fail to survive long, mild winters principally because respiration over the winter uses up their sugars. They're not getting damaged, or killed by the cold itself - just running out of energy. So it seems very plausible to me that greater nectar availability in winter gardens could have a big effect, allowing them 'midnight feasts' when the sun shines during the winter.

Red admirals hardly ever survive the winter in Switzerland but I did see them in January 2007 in the Rhône Valley in the vicinity of towns, where there are often floral displays. My first butterfly of 2010 was a February red admiral, this time in vineyards, where the angled terraces host low carpets of nectar plants (and plenty of rotting fruits) until very late in the year and from very early in the year.

Winter nectar is irrelevant to deep hibernators, like Camberwell beauties, some of which neither move nor feed from July until April. But red admirals keep taking sugars until well into November and may well last longer if they can top up their sugars in December or January.

All very interesting.

Guy

padfield wrote: Winter nectar is irrelevant to deep hibernators, like Camberwell beauties, some of which neither move nor feed from July until April. All very interesting.

I have wondered why some of the true hibernators such as Guy's example of the Camberwell Beauty hibernate so early? By not being active past July they will be missing the height of summer and the extra nectaring opportunites that would bring. Red Admirals on ivy and rotting fruit as a late example. Sedum plants and remaining buddliea as an earlier one!

Someone did point out (I think it was Neil) that all vanessids may not seem as common in the autumn (past the Peacock mass emergence perhaps) as they all go into hibernation at different points, some as soon as they emerge and some a little later.

Just curious really!

Cheers

Lee

Hello,

19 November 2010
On the cleared scrub area of Mill Hill (north of the path) a Peacock Butterfly basked on the dewy large leaves of a Great Mullein plant.

Adur Butterfly & Large Moth List
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Butterfly-list2010.html

Cheers

Andy Horton
Adur@glaucus.org.uk
Adur Valley Nature Notes
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Adur2010.html
Adur Valley Nature Notes: November 2010
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Nov2010.html
Sussex Downs Facebook Group
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=111843132181316

Matsukaze wrote:A few bumblebee species have started to become continuously-brooded in recent years. Winter-flowering exotics, particularly Mahonia, appear to be essential for this. Could garden plants be an essential ingredient in allowing adult Red Admirals to overwinter here?

http://www.bwars.com/Files%204%20downlo ... osheet.pdf

The Red Admiral can also use Wall pellitory as a larval foodplant, I'm not familiar with this plant other than it occurs in southern parts of Britain, perhaps this is available at times when nettles have died back?

Torbay Flyer wrote:

Matsukaze wrote:A few bumblebee species have started to become continuously-brooded in recent years. Winter-flowering exotics, particularly Mahonia, appear to be essential for this. Could garden plants be an essential ingredient in allowing adult Red Admirals to overwinter here?

http://www.bwars.com/Files%204%20downlo ... osheet.pdf

The Red Admiral can also use Wall pellitory as a larval foodplant, I'm not familiar with this plant other than it occurs in southern parts of Britain, perhaps this is available at times when nettles have died back?

Hello,

Local Stinging Nettles are covered in holes at present. I do not know the reason. I was on passage and did not examine them closely.

Cheers

Andy Horton
Adur@glaucus.org.uk
Adur Valley Nature Notes
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Adur2010.html
Adur Valley Nature Notes: November 2010
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Nov2010.html

Red Admiral.

The Red Admiral cannot hibernate, but it can certainly survive the British winter. Whether or not this is a 'new' phenomenon or simply an unexpected and therefore unrecorded event prior to the 1980's is not certain.

Interestingly, the first recorded mating of the species in Britain was made in 1984 in Cornwall in early December.

Since that date there have been surprisingly few instances of the copulation of this species being recorded in this country. If anyone were able to film the actual act of mating it would be a real scoop for this site.

Egg laying has been observed in mid November in the Home Counties and possibly in December in Cornwall (both occasions on nettle). The larva seems able to find nourishment from even the most jaded and jaundiced looking of nettle leaves.

Following sightings of the early stages throughout the winter months across the south of England it has been suggested (and not without good cause) that the species can survive the winter (or parts of it) in any stage of the life cycle, given of course a favourable micro-climate.

Over-wintered adults have been recorded surviving into April in some years and an overlap occurs between the first immigrants from the continent and the last of the overwintered population.

As a footnote I would add that the species has regularly been recorded immigrating to this country as late as November, therefore not all November Red Admirals should be considered to be home grown.

Felix.

...indeed; nor should any RA we see be assumed to be "heading south", it seems, as some literature suggests a reverse migration with the on-set of colder weather. Some are seemingly quite happy to hang around and take their chance with town and city garden plants for nectar. I wonder if Jack's RA in a pine tree was also using the resin as a sugar source.....?
We shouldn't be surprised that butterflies make opportunistic changes to their behaviour, I guess. All fascinating stuff.
N

A Peacock fluttering in strong sunshine on Bathampton Down, November 17 or 18 - probably the last adult butterfly I will see this year.

Plenty of Purple Hairstreak eggs to be found at the moment, too.

Hello,

My records seem to indicate that the late Red Admirals in Shoreham, Sussex are immigrants, there are more of them nearer the sea.

They also seem to be looking for somewhere to hide and on sunny days in all the winter months they have been seen. The reports are on the web pages.

Adur Butterfly Flight Times
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Butterflies1X2009.htm

Adur Butterfly & Large Moth List
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Butterfly-list2010.html

Cheers

Andy Horton
Adur@glaucus.org.uk
Adur Valley Nature Notes
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Adur2010.html
Adur Valley Nature Notes: November 2010
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Nov2010.html
Sussex Downs Facebook Group
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid111843132181316

Felix wrote:Red Admiral.

The Red Admiral cannot hibernate, but it can certainly survive the British winter. Whether or not this is a 'new' phenomenon or simply an unexpected and therefore unrecorded event prior to the 1980's is not certain.

Interestingly, the first recorded mating of the species in Britain was made in 1984 in Cornwall in early December.

Since that date there have been surprisingly few instances of the copulation of this species being recorded in this country. If anyone were able to film the actual act of mating it would be a real scoop for this site.

Egg laying has been observed in mid November in the Home Counties and possibly in December in Cornwall (both occasions on nettle). The larva seems able to find nourishment from even the most jaded and jaundiced looking of nettle leaves.

Following sightings of the early stages throughout the winter months across the south of England it has been suggested (and not without good cause) that the species can survive the winter (or parts of it) in any stage of the life cycle, given of course a favourable micro-climate.

Over-wintered adults have been recorded surviving into April in some years and an overlap occurs between the first immigrants from the continent and the last of the overwintered population.

As a footnote I would add that the species has regularly been recorded immigrating to this country as late as November, therefore not all November Red Admirals should be considered to be home grown.

Felix.

I had, perhaps, my strangest butterfly observation of the year today.
I took The Boss to a local pub for lunch.
It is situated on a busy roundabout, with a housing estate behind, and commercial district in front.
Whilst supping a reasonable pint of real ale I noticed a smallish butterfly on the frame of the window outside.
I had a look through the window, but couldn't make it out clearly as it was just a silhouette.
So, I went outside and, it was a Wall Brown!
I expected it to be a long dead, desicated corpse, but when I picked it off it opened it's wings, and crawled (very slowly) across my hand!
I put it inside some shrubbery, and it basked for a short while, and then closed it's wings totally with fore wings tucked behind hind wings, and it's camouflage was perfect.
Now - how unusual is it to see a Wall this late in the year? It was overcast, just below freezing, and we had heavy sleet as I photographed it.
As I said - remarkable.
Please excuse the quality of the photo, but I only had my phone to hand.

Hello,

Wall Brown is on my November list

http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Butterflies1X2009.htm

Ten butterflies on this list.

I expect the Wall Brown was an early in the month sighting in a previous year. Red Admirals seem to be less this year, but I have not been out and about so much.

Adur Butterfly & Large Moth List
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Butterfly-list2010.html

Cheers

Andy Horton
Adur@glaucus.org.uk
Adur Valley Nature Notes
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Adur2010.html
Adur Valley Nature Notes: November 2010
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/Nov2010.html
Sussex Downs Facebook Group
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid111843132181316

Rogerdodge wrote:I had, perhaps, my strangest butterfly observation of the year today.
I took The Boss to a local pub for lunch.
It is situated on a busy roundabout, with a housing estate behind, and commercial district in front.
Whilst supping a reasonable pint of real ale I noticed a smallish butterfly on the frame of the window outside.
I had a look through the window, but couldn't make it out clearly as it was just a silhouette.
So, I went outside and, it was a Wall Brown!
I expected it to be a long dead, desicated corpse, but when I picked it off it opened it's wings, and crawled (very slowly) across my hand!
I put it inside some shrubbery, and it basked for a short while, and then closed it's wings totally with fore wings tucked behind hind wings, and it's camouflage was perfect.
Now - how unusual is it to see a Wall this late in the year? It was overcast, just below freezing, and we had heavy sleet as I photographed it.
As I said - remarkable.
Please excuse the quality of the photo, but I only had my phone to hand.

roger - amazing sighting given the nature of the weather at the moment. She looks in very good condition too.

Yes, Roger - really surprising! You going into a pub
..and seeing a butterfly as well was pretty cool!
N