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Michaeljf wrote:
I was going to say - my computer kept on crashing , hence loading up the picture first (damn virus software) that Crickhowell is a lovely spot in the Black Mountains. A lovely part of the Black Mountains with some lovely walks - the valleys there remind me of the Lake District (maybe I've gone mad, tis true). Crickhowell is also right next to Llangattock Escarpment, a great place for climbing. Crickhowell is named after Crug Hywel, the Iron Age Fort above the town (see picture above - the Fort is the flattened-top part to the right). Anyway, my computer seems to have died down now...we take you back to normal service from the Welsh Tourist Board...
Michael

Lovely picture, is it a composite shot or just single wide angle and cropped for the long aspect ratio?

Bill

Bill S wrote: Lovely picture, is it a composite shot or just single wide angle and cropped for the long aspect ratio? Bill

Hi Bill,
thanks for the compliment - yes, it is a composite shot. Although you can sometimes get a nice shot with a wide-angle and then cropping, the best way (it's slightly long-winded) of getting a good panorama is to take 5, 6 or 7 shots in Portrait mode and then stitch them usiing software. This can give you a digital result which is very similiar to using a proper Panoramic Camera like the old Fuji 617 (never could afford one). Plus you have the option of using different wide angle or medium-angle lenses.

I normally use a Manfrotto tripod with a 303plus panoramic head, which guarantees a perfect combination of shots rotating round the apex of the camera lens (i.e. no problems with perspective changes between taking the photos - i.e. mismatching trees or buildings etc). I also use a Neutral-density graduated filter with my most of my proper landscape photographs to offset the usual tonal problems that the camera has with judging the sky and the ground. The software I use for the stitching is PTGui though in early days I did use another software (I think it was Panorama Factory) which was good until you want to tilt the camera so the horizon isn't in the middle of the frame (the PTGui copes with that no problem). The original file I end up with for the panorama can be anywhere between 20 Mb to 40 Mb - the big bonus being that the final panorama can be printed wall size and up with no deteriation, plus, on a tripod with the photographs taken at a small aperture (F22) the amount of detail in the panorama can be fantastic. In fact, it's a shame I can't show you the full size original!
Michael

Here's an example of what would make up a Panorama put together via my format (all pictures resized to show here ): 1st picture below is one of the sequence, of say, 6 or 7 photos in portrait mode to make up the final panorama: 2nd picture is the final Panorama (reduced in size to show here): the 3rd picture is a standard Landscape-format shot. Of course, you could crop the final photo a bit, but even on a 17mm lens for a wide-angle shot, everything at the edges get warped and you just don't get the detail. Also, unless you have a tilt-and-shift lens, whenever you photograph buidlings with a wide-angle lens, all the horizontal lies get warped and bendy...

p.s. on this website you can't get the full impact of the Panorama anyway, but you get the gist

Michaeljf wrote:I also use a Neutral-density graduated filter with my most of my proper landscape photographs to offset the usual tonal problems that the camera has with judging the sky and the ground.

Thanks for the explanation - I followed most of it but the above was lost on me. What are the usual tonal problems and what does the ND filter do to sort it out?

Bill

In photography and optics, a neutral density filter or ND filter can be a colourless (clear) or grey filter. An ideal neutral density filter reduces and/or modifies intensity of all wavelengths or colours of light equally, giving no changes in hue of colour rendition.

The purpose of standard photographic neutral density filters is to allow the photographer greater flexibility to change the aperture, exposure time and/or blur of subject in different situations and atmospheric conditions.



That's straight out of Wiiapedia.



I use a B&W graduated ND filter, on the large Canon lenses, their quite expensive, but a vital bit of kit for landscape work.

Regards Gruditch

Hi Bill,
the Neutral Density (normally graduated) Filter is often a square plate of glass or plastic that slides over the lens (you normally have to have an attachment to fit to the lens to slide the sheet in). The ND grad is a sheet where it goes from see-through glass or plastic, with one end of the glass moving into a shade of light grey (normally fitted over the lens to match where the sky will go).

Here's the science bit : every digital camera, or even a medium-format camera or large format camera, normally has a problem reading photographs of landscapes with large areas of sky, if the sky is not, for example, a medium or deeper shade of blue and you are shooting into that. This is because the human eye sees the equavalent of about 15 stops of light, the best camera only sees about 5 stops of light. Every camera reads tonal qualities in black & white when it reads the tone of a shot. On automatic settings, If you point a camera at the sky, you'll normally get a much 'darker' version of the sky, if you point the camera at the ground, you'll normally get a 'good' reading, because - for example - the tonal quality of a field of grass equates to a mid-grey, a range of bushes will read as mid-grey or sometimes the camera will lighten this because a range of bushes or forest will often be darker (i.e. tonal quality of dark grey).

So, the problem crops up that when you take a photo of a landscape which shows both sky and the ground, often the sky is 'too light' leaving you with either (a) a good photograph with the ground correctly exposed and the sky overexposed (the sky has a 'bleached' look), or (b) a good photograph which shows the sky correctly exposed and the landscape underexposed. Putting a ND graduated filter over the lens for such a shot means that the area of 'grey' on the filter more or less covers the sky area so you get a better exposure for sky while the ground section of the landscape is correctly exposed.

As mentioned at the start, there are also times when you can get a great shot of a landscape and sky without a filter: (a) when the ground is covered in snow (i.e. the ground becomes much ligher in tone, and the sky probably matches the 'shadow area' of the landscape) (b) in photos with ground areas such as quarries, chalkhill areas or cliffs or sandy areas where the ground areas are much 'lighter' in tone because of the stone etc (c) when the tone of the sky is already quite a deep blue, so that the tonal quality is easier for the camera to 'shoot'.

If you look at magazines or good web images, pretty much anyone who is taking 'professional' landscape shots is normally using graduated Neutral Density filters, whether you realise it or not. I hope this makes sense.

Michael

And Grudditch's post was probably a much easier one to follow

No actually I found the Wikipedia explanation quite rubbish, yours is much better.

You can as Michael says, buy an attachment that the square filters will fit in. Much cheaper than a round screw on filter. When building up a collection of lenses, if you do want screw on filters, is worth looking at the lens filter sizes. All my Cannon lenses take the same size.

Regards Gruditch

My bad sorry . I hadn't spotted that you mentioned graduated in the original post. What was puzzling me was how an ungraduated ND filter would be useful. Thanks both.

Bill

hi micheal,

thanks also for your clear advise on ND filters, i must invest in one myself. ive been playing around with photo stitching for a while, only using the basic canon zoombrowser software which is alright but if your don't as you say pay attention to keeping the images on an level sweep you spend far too much time re correcting perspectives in photo shop prior to stitching.

the picture attached is an attemp last year to do an end to end panarama of collard hill, it looks abit bazar but i think it illustrates well the need for the filters you speak of, as in an aid to keep continuity of exposure in the land lower half of the pic the sky exposure varies wildly, being somewhat blown out to the left, to nicely exposed to the right.
it was done as you said taken portrait with about a ten exposures.

realy like your panaramas posted so far.

gary.

I have a remarkably similar stitched panorama from Collard Hill.

One point that I don’t think has been mentioned is the value of keeping the film plane (sensor) vertical as this minimises post processing. I take the pictures (as others also do) in the portrait mode and ensure that I aim the centre of the frame on the horizon – this keeps the sensor plane vertical.

I love cloudscapes. This is four or five pictures stitched together:


Jack

geniculata wrote:as in an aid to keep continuity of exposure in the land lower half of the pic the sky exposure varies wildly, being somewhat blown out to the left, to nicely exposed to the right. gary.

Hi Gary,
firstly, thanks for your compliments about my panoramas. Secondly, I'm not sure that a graduated ND filter will help that much with the Panorama you've got of Collard Hill (which I actually think works just fine) if you take a panorama where the camera is moving across the horizon with the sun more visible in one end of the picture rather than the other, one end of sky will always look more bleached than the other, even with a filter. What you have to decide is within that Panorama, which point do you base your general tone quality. If you need the filter for this (often central) point, then it will improve the quality of the whole panorama, but it won't cater for natural changes in the sky tone from one side to the other which can only be expected. What you've ended up with a fairly realistic camera version of what you'd see with your eyes. It also shows the point earlier in that a deep blue sky is always going to be easier for the camera to capture in terms of tone.

I would still suggest getting one or a couple of ND graduated filters, as they will help landscape shots about 85% of the time. If you're using a full-frame camera then you'll need to get a larger filter system. As most people would be using a 1.6 sensor (most mid-range SLR's) as opposed to a full-frame sensor (the really expensive SLRs) there isn't a need for a bigger size filter system. The best thing to do is find out what size filter you'll need for your widest landscape lens (without the edges of the adaptor or holder showing in the corners of the frame when you look through the viewfinder etc). Once you have a filter that covers your widest lens, you can always get adapter rings for other (smaller) lens sizes (if you have more than one landscape lens). Good luck!
Michael

cheers mickael,

gary

I'm not going to get too depressed just yet - saw a Comma this morning and the Speckleds are still out in force. The summer did seem to end early though - round here the Meadow Browns and Gatekeepers got washed away by the foul weather we had mid-August.

I always feel a bit poignant when the Orange-Tips disappear. June just seems a little early for your year to finish!

Well, with a sunny forecast for tomorrow I'm intending to head out to a sheltered little valley I've recently discovered near my home for one last sortie of the year. I don't expect to see much, but I'll be keeping an eye on the flora and the terrain for signs that certain species might be present next year (e.g. SPBF, SWF, Purple Hairstreak, Green Hairstreak).

I'm enjoying the benefits of a wet autumnal Sunday afternoon. After cooking a roast lunch for everyone Mum's gone on strike and I am hogging the best sofa, the biggest telly, and watching two Ingrid Bergman movies back to back with the log burner blazing. Bliss

Aah! The simple pleasures eh! Susie. Stuff yer face and get yer feet up. I'm all for that.

Our new wood burn-burning stove was installed just in time for this big freeze (freeze is an exaggeration, but it certainly feels like it). It’s a great piece of kit.

I was never able to get our previous open wood/coal fire going without a lot of luck or more usually, handing over the job to my wife. But this wood-burner might be within my capabilities. However, I am yet to go solo!

There is one strange thing about it though. The cats haven’t as yet discovered its pleasures.

Jack

Yeh! My wifes the same,,, women have a knack with open fires. Also they really excel at cleaning out the ashes. Oops

Wood burners are far easier to operate (is that the right word?) than open fires plus there is the benefit that you don't have to worry about sparks and/or ashes escaping.

There was a starling sitting in the woodburner when I got in this afternoon. If it had been an open fire it would have been flying around the room! Luckily I was able to put it outside safely without harm to feather or ornament.