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A nice set of images, Bill - as you know I like the commoner butterflies too and your two Whites are lovely examples. The first is as you say a Green-veined White, but the second is a splendid Small White. I do sometimes struggle to differentiate between the males of these species, but the rule of thumb I use (which seems to work) is around the black wingtip scales. On the GVW, these seem to concentrate around the veins, with distinct "bulges" towards the edge of the wing. On the Small White, the black is evenly spread across the surface. I'm not sure if this is true or not, but it also looks as if on a GVW the black spot is in a space between veins, but on the Small White it straddles a vein. I'm really no expert, mind!

Dave

I agree with MIllerd with the ID of the second white. I've always found with fresh individuals that the 'shade' of the white itself helps me. GVW in my experience tend towards a 'pure snowy white' whereas SW are a more 'creamy, milky white'. The black markings on the wingtips tend to follow the veins on GVW (as Dave says) as well which you can see clearly on your first picture arising to a few black spots along the edge of the forewing. I've never seen this in a SW.

Thank you Dave...

millerd wrote: I'm not sure if this is true or not, but it also looks as if on a GVW the black spot is in a space between veins, but on the Small White it straddles a vein. I'm really no expert, mind!

I've looked closely at this very thing in the past Dave, I'm sure its a valid ID point, in fact during my head-scratching with this one I considered this point and as is often the case changed my mind, now can anyone else add to this specific ID point

bugboy wrote: GVW in my experience tend towards a 'pure snowy white' whereas SW are a more 'creamy, milky white'.

Another useful observation Buggy, thank you, these ID pointers are important when differentiating between Green-veined & Small White and I think there is too much emphasis on the differences between Small & Large White in the fieldguides when very often the problems occur more often between ID with G-v W & SW as this particular instance illustrates

It would be interesting to have any further ID pointers anyone can offer, we can all learn much more from each other on such personal observations...most butterflyers have their own little ID 'tricks'...please share them!

BW's

Bill

"When in doubt - venture out"

Willrow wrote:It would be interesting to have any further ID pointers anyone can offer

Bill

Probably the best ID tip is well described on this website in the relevant species pages. Look towards the bottom of each page in the 'Similar Species' section.

Yes,indeed Phil, a timely reminder of the very useful 'Similar Species' section, which I admit to occasionally referring to, and this is yet another instance of not backing my first inclination, these two white species are providing me with loads of fun ...I don't think

I intend taking a great deal more notice of the spots in relation to the veins as Dave (Millerd) has already referred to above, I know on occasions spots can actually be absent, but if this theory can be confirmed its another great help with ID seperation between these whites, and lets be honest few butterflyers havn't had problems with them at some time or another.

Thank you for your valued input

BW's

Bill

"When in doubt - venture out"

Thank You for all of your valued Comments.