www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

Are the Whites all Small Whites?

David M wrote:Are the Whites all Small Whites?

You were typing that exactly while I was sticking the addendum on my post above!

Guy

Thanks Guy.I will see what other skippers I have recorded on that trip,before I move on to the Blues.
P.J.U.

padfield wrote:

David M wrote:Are the Whites all Small Whites?

You were typing that exactly while I was sticking the addendum on my post above!

Guy

Is it the bold black markings that strike them out as mannii?

Here is my collection of the other skippers.I have left my original guesses attached to the photo's,but would be grateful for the correct identification.Thanks in anticipation.
P.J.U.

Hi PJ.

I think you have the same species of skipper there, with some tages (dingy) thrown in - the mating pair and the last picture. The orange skippers are indeed acteon, probably confirming the ones I identified as that yesterday.

I have a strong suspicion the white in the first picture is a male ergane. It would be good to have some close-ups of the whites, as I'm sure there are mannii present (David, this is a mixture of jizz and some relatively constant characters, like the extent of the apical mark and the even, rather dense scaling over the whole of the underside hindwing).

So, for the skippers, the Carcharodus with brown/grey undersides are flocciferus (I think) and the ones with mostly white undersides are lavatherae. I think the Pyrgus in your picture 4 is probably alveus, but I'm happy to be corrected.

The Carcharodus in your picture 6 could be a very worn flocciferus or I suppose it could even be alceae - I'm not sure of that one. I'll come back to it.

Guy

Guy,
Here are some shots of various groups of whites in the mud puddling photo's.I make out two types.Thanks for your work on the skippers.The identified whites will follow.
P.J.U.

Brilliant! You've got mannii and ergane there!

I've taken the liberty of pointing out the two of them in a crop of your penultimate picture:



Guy

Right Guy,I will now post my complete set of whites we found in Croatia.Sorry,being an amateur I use English names that are attached to the photo's.That is no excuse really,as with the fungi I have to learn both names-about 4,500 to go!

Lovely pictures, PJ. Sorry if I put you off with the Latin names. Since I've lived in Switzerland and communicated with lepsters of many different tongues I've completely gone over to Latin in my head now.

I don't think you have any small whites in this last batch - the two you label small white look like southern small white to me. And if you're interested in ticking off species, some pedants might say you had Eastern Bath white there, rather than Bath white. Other pedants don't accept that as a good species ...

Guy

Guy, Thank you so much for all the info.It is all splendid.Back to the mud puddling pictures.It looks as if there are two species of blues.The first one is solely to give an idea of the colour.Are they mostly Adonis?
P.J.U.

Having been through the Whites and the Skippers,which are more or less sorted (Thanks Guy) I am now starting on the Blues.This first batch is a nightmare.I haven't a clue of any of them.Help would be appreciated.
P.J.U.

Absolutely fantastic shots PJ - the 'Eastern Bath White is lush It's strange as well seeing Lulworth Skippers somewhere else than in Dorset Looking back on some of the earlier posts is your 'maybe a Moth 3' a Chimney Sweeper?

Have a goodun

Wurzel

Thanks Wurzel for your comments.I agree,I always find it difficult seeing Lulworths in other countries.At Durleston Country Park they seem dull,greyish and uninteresting,yet on the continent they are beautifully golden.Is it the light or could they be different varieties,I wonder.I have studied other photo's and am sure it is the Chimney sweeper moth,now that you have pointed me in the right direction.It was common and out in daylight.I am also sure I have seen many similar up at Seldon,in the Bernese Oberland.Perhaps you might like to have a go at No.1 of the Blues!
P.J.U.

Hi PJ. I've just got home with quite a lot of beer in my tummy, so won't do the full Plebejus analysis tonight - on first glance you have two species of Plebejus there (argus and idas), as well as Polyommatus (presumably icarus). But on first glance I'm not sure what the first species is yet ... It might be vicrama, but I'll come back to it later.

Your second from last picture is a sooty copper.

It seems a great place you visited.

Guy

Just in case someone is interested,I am giving details of our trip in June 2013.
We flew Ryanair Luton to Zadar,halfway up the coast.Zadar is a small airport and mostly given over to Ryanair.We hired a car there and drove to our base,a cheap hotel at Paklenica,near the entrance to the Paklenica National Park.The roads everywhere were really good.We drove up into the hills behind the hotel,about 1 mile in all,three times-twice in the morning and once late afternoon.everywhere were masses of butterflies and wild flowers.We also encountered a Brown Bear on the road in front of us and I photographed a Rock Partridge,and later had this camera stolen!We spent one day in the Paklenica National Park(where I saw a Cleopatra).From our base we journeyed out for whole days.One was devoted to the coast going north and then going inland to the Jezera National Park,with its National collection of Alpine plants.Another was the Krupa National Park,(Brilliant!) and a nearby village of Zrmanga,and basically all roads and lanes leading outwards.We were there for 1 week and I would love to go again-but there is so much else to do.There were three of us and the whole trip cost £600 per person!
P.J.U.

Hi PJ. In your 2nd Dec post, which I somehow missed earlier, I think the first shows an Adonis blue, the second and third probably common blues and the last one I'm guessing Adonis, as the forewing just doesn't look pale enough for chalkhill - but it is very grey. Mmm ... Yes, I think Adonis.

In the next post (8th Dec) I still think the first one could be a rather worn vicrama (Eastern baton blue) but I'd love to see more of it.

The next, I think, is a female silver-studded blue or idas blue - I think local knowledge of these variable butterflies might be needed to be sure. I'd go for idas, on the grounds I think your last picture is of a silver-stud and she's quite different, without any blue.

Then two common blues (your pictures 6 and 5), then I'd go for idas for the next male - without 100% confidence - and silver-stud for the last female.

I hope someone else will chip in with corroboration or better suggestions!

Guy

Guy,
Thanks for your comments again.I feel more confident to put my main list up now,but still am expecting some errors!I will also hunt for more photo's of the worn possible vicrama.

Hi PJ. More lovely pictures, and some more thoughts from me on their identities!

The fourth picture down, that you've labelled icarus, is bellargus. I don't think I've commented on that one before, but if I have and I misled you, my apologies. The fringe, the colour and details of the hindwing markings all point to bellargus.

The one below it, that you've labelled vicrama, is also bellargus, I think. I should add, though, that recently the system played tricks on me and displayed the wrong pictures, so if my remarks seem way out maybe that's happening again! Now I doubt what appears on my screen ...

The one you've labelled eros I think is escheri - I don't think eros flies in Croatia - it's not recorded there in Kudrna's latest atlas.

Below that, the one labelled artaxerxes is not Aricia but Lysandra (in the old money) - so probably bellargus. The one beneath that, which you have also labelled artaxerxes, is another female Lysandra - and a bit ambiguous but I think it's bellargus.

The next one is definitely not osiris - unless they have very different markings in Croatia. I'll come back to that!

Beneath that is probably a female silver-studded blue, Plebejus argus. The fringes look too dirty for Reverdin's, the hindwing underside markings are not right and what can be seen of the upperside markings suggests argus more than argyrognomon. Idas is a possibility, but the ups do look more like argus. I don't feel confident with this group outside my home territory because there is so much variation.

The next female, that you've labelled silver-studded, I would pass on. I think it could be silver-studded but without local knowledge cannot rule out idas.

This probably isn't that helpful, but I tried!

Guy

I think the one you've labelled osiris is amandus (Amanda's blue) - or even iolas. In fact, it is looking more and more like iolas to me. Either way, you might remember it being rather large, whereas osiris is usually quite small - up to about common blue size, but often smaller.

To be honest, I'm uncomfortable with the agestis identification as well! There are definitely blue scales on the wings and in a female Aricia that is pretty well unheard of. I'd go for bellargus again - but if so, what variation there is in that species there!

Guy

EDIT - I definitely come down on iolas for that one! It's interesting that the plant it's on doesn't look quite like bladder senna - the leaves seem too small - but it might be.