www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

To a degree I see this colony as almost being "pets", and nothing wrong with that.
However - sometimes escaping pets can cause problems.
I recall that back in the 80s (I think it was) that some turtles escaped into the sewers and then became radiated and turned into crime fighting.............hold on - that was fiction wasn't it!

Rogerdodge wrote:I recall that back in the 80s (I think it was) that some turtles escaped into the sewers and then became radiated and turned into crime fighting.............hold on - that was fiction wasn't it!

I love it when you throw a curveball into a serious debate like that. I had visions of rampant turtles for a second. Ones that can dance and sing are even worse!
Michael

That comment made me smile too.

It made me think back to when I was a volunteer warden at a country park for a while and came across a turtle in a stream. It had eaten all the tadpoles and whether these had given it a tummy ache I don't know but it was a right vicious little critter and hissed and snapped at anyone who went near it. I'm not a scaredy cat but I feared for my fingers. I say it was little but it wasn't, it wasn't a usual turtle and it's shell was circular and the size of a large dinner plate. I let someone else capture that one! I imagine it had grown too big for it's aquarium and it's owner decided to let it go free.

Could have been a Snapping Turtle. Would have definitely had one of your fingers. Red -eared Terrapins and the like often carry salmonella as well.

I think we have 2 or 3 Red-eared Terrapins at Attenborough Nature Reserve, we have had a Python and a Tarrantula. All obviously released pets.

The worst invaders are the crayfish. We have at least 2 possibly 3 foreign imports and these all play havoc with the local ecosystems. They do make good food for the local gull populations though.

Was there ever a Mutant Ninja Crayfish. Could have been a good sequel.

As my friend & I will be passing within a few miles on our way down the M3 next wednesday on our way to the delights of W Sussex/Hamps/east Dorset for 4 days, we would be foolish not to call in for a look. I looked at the Bing maps ariel view & parking possibilities seem to be up a track off the A31 dual carriageway & under the railway line, is this correct or is there parking on the A325 with a footpath through? Thanks. Eric

EricY wrote:As my friend & I will be passing within a few miles on our way down the M3 next wednesday on our way to the delights of W Sussex/Hamps/east Dorset for 4 days, we would be foolish not to call in for a look. I looked at the Bing maps ariel view & parking possibilities seem to be up a track off the A31 dual carriageway & under the railway line, is this correct or is there parking on the A325 with a footpath through? Thanks. Eric

I saw these instructions on the BC Sussex web site today:

I visited the Wrecclesham sand pit today and met two other BC Sussex members. As soon as we stepped into a meadow covered with vetch and Ox-eye daisies we were surrounded by Glanville Fritillaries. Two other butterfly enthusiasts joined in the fun and I learned that the first 'landing' of GFs was in 2001 followed by a second wave in 2003. The rest is history as this colony is clearly thriving. A week before they were seen by the sand pit area so it is worth exploring if they not around the daisy meadow. You can park on Riverdale at SU82434502. There is a public footpath sign pointing across the cricket pitch which leads to a track and a fenced meadow with the daisies. (Colin Knight)

I'm hoping to visit on Saturday, weather permitting.

Yes, Glanville Fritillary are very easy to rear!

Some 40 years ago I bred them from I of W larvae. I can’t recall exact numbers, but I collected around 80 taking one from a nest. They thrived in captivity, the adults paired readly and by the following spring I must have had perhaps 1,000 very hungry larvae. I had no choice but to release them. (Caudle Green in the Cotswolds near where I then lived). Many adults emerged that season, there were a few seen the following year but no more after that.

Jack

Just to remind folks that Sam and I are heading off to the Isle of Wight on Friday 27th May for REAL Glanvilles should anyone be interested in joining us. Had a couple of chaps drop out so still two spare seats available if you're quick. Cost for taking the car across is £44 so it'll be ten quid each if I can fill it plus maybe a fiver or so petrol money each? Nothing too horrific. Fuller details on The Calendar page. I'm Epsom based but don't mind picking people up if the detour isn't too great, else meet us at the ferry terminal. PM me if you're interested. We'll be looking at all kinds of wildlife whilst there, not just the Glanvilles. Should be a fun day!

Closer to home, I can't believe how close I've ventured to the Wrecclesham site whilst dragonfly searching along a nearby river! Absurd what may be lurking around the next bend isn't it? I don't know why, but when I heard about the introduced colony "in west Surrey near the border" (maybe 3 or 4 years ago?) I somehow figured it was near Heathrow Airport. Don't really know WHY I thought it was up there, but I was convinced...so does anybody know of a second colony somewhere just west of London...or am I just being a mentalist again?

Cheers,

Gibster.

Gibster wrote:I somehow figured it was near Heathrow Airport. Don't really know WHY I thought it was up there, but I was convinced...so does anybody know of a second colony somewhere just west of London...or am I just being a mentalist again?

Cheers,

Gibster.

If it's near me (at the western end of the south runway) I haven't come across it yet! Despite the large number of gravel pits around, and landscaped spoil heaps from the construction of the M25 and latterly Terminal Five, there isn't much plantain in evidence - but I'll keep an eye out...

Dave

[quote="Gibster"]Just to remind folks that Sam and I are heading off to the Isle of Wight on Friday 27th May for REAL Glanvilles...

Is there a false Glanville fritillary in the same way that there is a false Heath fritillary?

I popped down to Wrecclesham today, (19th) arriving at 11am and leaving at 3.30. The first thing I saw was a small knot of people in the meadow including Pete Eels .

First thing to say is that Colin Knight's directions are spot-on and there is easy parking in Riverdale. The Glanville's are to be found mainly around the Ox-eye daisies which are in front of you as you enter the meadow. I also had a walk down to the sand pit but found only 3 Fritillaries there. In all I would estimate there were approximately 50-60 on the wing, they being seen in two's and three's. Most were still very fresh and at least three had emerged that morning.

Care is needed when walking around, not only because of the rutted ground which is covered in tussocks of grass, but to avoid damaging birds nests. Another visitor pointed out a Pheasant's nest in the grass which contained 7 eggs. It is 10 paces beyond the second pipe valve after you enter the meadow. I have marked the front and back of the nest with some grey plastic pipe sleeves, so please take care.

Pete wanted to get photos of a mating pair but had to leave before finding one. The closest I got was this............
There were also opportunities to get underwing shots when the occasional clouds came across............
There should still be lots of fresh individuals around when Susie visits next week

Vince

Many thanks, Vince. Smashing photos, btw!

To add a comment to the debate on introductions - BTW, I had heard of this colony - I think Roger is right. No problem with starting our own little zoos - we have them, naturally, already; we call then Reserves - so I see this no different to Chambers Wood Farm, nr Lincoln, where, to my knowledge, Marsh Fritillary and Dingy Skipper have both been (re)introduced. Given that colonies of butterflies move over time, to make use of the best habitat - or die out as it disappears - we should perhaps not get too distressed at these attempts to spread species more widely, nor be surprised if they do not persist, since local extinctions of species have often taken place. All it takes is a few years of grazing at the wrong time, or by different animals, or for woodland drives to get overgrown. What is different now, from a more "natural" order, is that the meta-populations of butterflies no longer exist to re-colonise suitable areas following such extinctions.

So I guess this is where the breeders and enthusiast come in. At least some understand and are attempting to halt declines in our rare butterflies by breeding and releasing; scientists amongst our ranks (and recorders too) often throw their hands up in horror. It distorts the real picture and, as Roger points out, can have unexpected consequences by introducing other, unintended, species that prey on more than just the butterflies.

But, as someone said, "Surely better to try to do something now, than, in the end, simply plot their decline and extinction?".......

NickB wrote:No problem with starting our own little zoos

If we just all went around starting our own little zoos Nick, what happens when for instance, a group is trying to protect a site that is home to a critically endangered species, the potential counter arguments could be, " their probably just an introduction."

Regards Gruditch

I finally got to see the Glanvilles at Wrecclesham today. I must admit it felt a bit like cheating, and I didn't get as much of the "wow" factor as I would have done seeing them in their natural habitat. But it was nice to see them all the same, and I don't have a problem with re-introducing them on the mainland, given that a couple of hundred years ago they were found as far north as Lincolnshire. There were at least 30 - 40 in the daisy filled meadow. They were quite flighty and there was a breeze too, so not ideal conditions for photography, the daisy heads kept dancing around in my view finder!

Gruditch wrote:

NickB wrote:No problem with starting our own little zoos

If we just all went around starting our own little zoos Nick, what happens when for instance, a group is trying to protect a site that is home to a critically endangered species, the potential counter arguments could be, " their probably just an introduction."
Regards Gruditch

I do expect some common sense to be exercised!. Some fool tried to release Heath Fritillary at the site of our mis-Guided bus scheme in Cambridge, 70 miles from the nearest colony!

And introduction or not, should these Glanvilles become established over a period of years, then are they not worth saving? As John W was saying, they used to be present as far north as Lincolnshire. (And John, we saw them in dis-used gravel workings and quarries, as well as in many other environments in France, so gravel pits may be seen as "natural")

If they were established next to a Nature Reserve, should the Nature Reserve accommodate them in their management plans, or make sure they stopped these naughty butterflies from breeding in their Reserve?

On Thurs.10th June I visited Wrecclesham,to see if the Glanvilles were still there,and indeed a few were.Today, with a friend,we found many similar fritillaries but on careful study they are different.Are these Heath Frits.and if so the story continues.Perhaps I should go back and get an underwing shot.There were also plenty of marbled whites,small heaths,meadow browns,small tortoiseshells and large and small skippers.Can someone identity this Frit.for me.thanks.
P.J.U.

P.J.Underwood wrote:On Thurs.10th June I visited Wrecclesham,to see if the Glanvilles were still there,and indeed a few were.Today, with a friend,we found many similar fritillaries but on careful study they are different.Are these Heath Frits.and if so the story continues.Perhaps I should go back and get an underwing shot.There were also plenty of marbled whites,small heaths,meadow browns,small tortoiseshells and large and small skippers.Can someone identity this Frit.for me.thanks.
P.J.U.

That DOES look more Heath than Glanville, but after my 'Chalkhill Blue' episode that turned out to be an aberrant Common Blue, I'll leave this to the experts!

It looks like a Heath Fritillary to me, as it doesn't have the hindwing spots. An underside shot would clinch it. I have no idea if Glanvilles ever lack those spots.

Dave

Little doubt that it's Heath Frit. But how long has a colony been there? Another mystery.

Jack