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Re: Very Unusual Yellow Caterpillar - Dorset

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:42 pm
by dgreves
But why would parasitisation by a wasp explain the behaviour of the ants? And what would explain the big difference in pattern and colouration?

Re: Very Unusual Yellow Caterpillar - Dorset

Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:28 pm
by Dave McCormick
I am not quite sure, but if the cat was exposed in the open near an ant nest, I suppose the ants might see it as prey and attack it? All I can think of. Someone else also thoguht it was a odd powdered quaker caterpillar.

Re: Very Unusual Yellow Caterpillar - Dorset

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:05 am
by Trev Sawyer
If the caterpillar was "sick" ie parasitised, it may well produce chemicals which suggest to an ant that it is dying (and therefore becoming a potential meal). Once the ants detect these, the message would spread and other ants might join in. Alternatively, the chemicals exuded might for some reason be sweet(?) and attract the ants that way.

Trev

Re: Very Unusual Yellow Caterpillar - Dorset

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:39 am
by dgreves
Ian at ukmoths very kindly got back to me yesterday with a suggestion from Roy at ukleps that it might be Black Rustic final instar in an unusual yellow or sick form. He says "Build very similar. Also note the dark marks either side of the spiracles on the first two or three abdominal segments - these match too".

Re: Very Unusual Yellow Caterpillar - Dorset

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:54 am
by Dave McCormick
Would explain why it was in open, right area if it feeds on low growing plants, including heather. Looks good too, here is an image of the black rustic cat: http://www.habitas.org.uk/moths/larva.asp?item=6325

Re: Very Unusual Yellow Caterpillar - Dorset

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:13 pm
by dgreves
Yes - that looks similar to the image Roy attached to his email.

No heather along this bit of the coast but downland seems to match the habitat conditions also.

I think we may have a winner!

I'm surprised parasitisation would provide such an obvious clue to potential predators - I assume the parasite would perish along with the host if it was consumed. There are dozens of ant hills in this valley - they dot the landscape quite dramatically - but I rarely see the ants themselves above ground. Adonis Blues also a frequent sight here and I believe they have a relationship with the ants too.

I just found a video of ants attending to Adonis Blue larva:

http://www.arkive.org/adonis-blue/lysan ... eo-09.html

and they seem to cluster around the rear end much in the same way as shown in my video clip - I wonder if they confused it for a different species.

Re: Very Unusual Yellow Caterpillar - Dorset

Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:35 pm
by Dave McCormick
Adonis blue caterpillars, like several other blues (large and alcon blues), make a sound quite like that of that of a ant grub. The ants find the cats, thinking they are their grubs because of this and take them back to their nest where they can be looked after and reletivly (not totally though) safe from predators. They are fed and cared for like the ants grubs too. The cats pupate in the ant nest and emerge as adults, crawl out of the nest, expand wings and fly away,

This black rustic cat doesn't do that, not many in UK do that besides some blue butterfly species, so might be attacked if showing weak signs or smells, signals etc...

Re: Very Unusual Yellow Caterpillar - Dorset

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:51 pm
by dgreves
I went back to the same spot yesterday and no sign of caterpillars (or moths) but I did find thousands of Braconidae wasp eggs newly fastened to many of the same grass stems:

Image

Is it possible they were responsible for parasitising the caterpillar do you think?

Re: Very Unusual Yellow Caterpillar - Dorset

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:46 pm
by Dave McCormick
Actually those are brachnoid cocoons (those that parasite large whites have yellow cocoons), the eggs are laid in caterpillars, the grubs feed inside the caterpillar and eat some of what the cat eats and when the cat goes to pupate the grubs burst out and create those cocoons so I'd say they could have parasited the caterpillar.

Re: Very Unusual Yellow Caterpillar - Dorset

Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:48 pm
by dgreves
Today I found them tucking in to a Burnet Moth caterpillar:

Image

Further along the coast another insect was evening the score:

Image

Re: Very Unusual Yellow Caterpillar - Dorset

Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:58 am
by Cotswold Cockney
dgreves wrote:Today I found them tucking in to a Burnet Moth caterpillar:

Image

Further along the coast another insect was evening the score:

Image
That lower picture is truly remarkable.
.

Re: Very Unusual Yellow Caterpillar - Dorset

Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:06 am
by dgreves
I thought it was an ant at first but it didn't look right on closer inspection. Someone tells me it's another wasp - but a wasp with no wings? Is this an early developmental stage? And could it be the same species as emerged from the cocoons or a different one?

Re: Very Unusual Yellow Caterpillar - Dorset

Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:29 pm
by dgreves
Fascinating article on New Scientist about "Zombie Caterpillars":

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1 ... wasps.html

It goes on to say:

"One parasite, for instance, infects an ant and appears to "convince" it to climb to the tops of blades of grass where it is more likely to be eaten by grazing sheep - which the parasite needs to get into in order to complete its life cycle."

If this had been the case with the original yellow caterpillar my remark about being munched next day by the cattle might have been apt!

Re: Very Unusual Yellow Caterpillar - Dorset

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:16 pm
by Dave McCormick
Today I found them tucking in to a Burnet Moth caterpillar:
Actually I think they emerge from the cat and pupate, they have finisehd with it, thats what the white things are, they spin cocoons besdie the body of the caterpillar. I was rearing some moths recently from caterpillars I found at a lake near here, 10 adults emerged, but also 4 wasps, the grub 9white) burst out of the caterpillar when it was fully grown and pupated beside it.

The second image looks like it could be a velvet ant. Velvet ants are not ants, but infact wingless wasps that inhabit moores and other grassy places.