Upgrading..500D maybe

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Dave McCormick
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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by Dave McCormick »

Big post there, I'll read it better when I have more time, but from what I did see:
Don't like the handling of the camera:
This is probably the most difficult to address. You may grow into a camera's quirks and foibles with familiarity, but if you have large hands, you may never be able to comfortably handle a small camera body such as the 400D. In such cases changing to a 500D, which is also small, won't improve things very much. In such an eventuality, since Dave has only the kit and macro lenses it might be that a complete change in mount may be considered. This is why getting down to your local camera shop to try the alternatives is important when upgrading, and especially when purchasing from scratch as once you've bought into a set of lenses then you're going to want to stay put.
I don't really have big hands so I am not really worried about camera size or shooting/editing in RAW as I have a quad core PC with top end graphics as I do video editing and 3D modelling etc... so its up to date and quite fast. I don't want to change from Canon as I am used to how they work (I have used a 40D, 400D, handeled the 450D and 500D) I hae seen good reviews and photos with the Sony A700 and I am not biased towards any brand, maybe Olympus because of their lack of lenses but I don't know much about their cameras.

I don't want to change camera brands because that would mean changing my Sigma lens too and its served me well and I have around £1000 max to spend and originally though about a birding lens because of the photos of birds people on here were getting, but I decided I might like an upgrade on camera. I don't really care much for live view, but I am into shooting videos and even though I have a video camera, it does not work well half the time and the focusing is bad and seeing the 500D has a video more, I thought it might be a good upgrade, now I did not think of it just because of that and I know 15MP may not seem that much over 10MP, but it is more MP.

I did want, as I said a birding lens, but I'd prefer not to have a preowned lens and new ones are hardly cheap and I'd rather not spend over £800 or more on a lens, at least not yet when I don't yet have a job as just finishing school and I just have saved up just over £1000 and I thought about the Canon 500D and 18-200 IS lens kit. I have noticed the lager ISO's on newer cameras and what would be the use for anything higher than ISO-1600? Well, I'll post more soon, my internets messing up.
Cheers all,
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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by Gruditch »

Sorry to confuse you even more Dave, but with the money you have available, you could almost afford the Sigma lens that Mark suggested, and a 500D body.

A long, very interesting, balanced, and informative post by Eccles. :D

I'll get back to you about the PE thing Eccles

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Dave McCormick
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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by Dave McCormick »

Gruditch wrote:Sorry to confuse you even more Dave, but with the money you have available, you could almost afford the Sigma lens that Mark suggested, and a 500D body.

A long, very interesting, balanced, and informative post by Eccles. :D

I'll get back to you about the PE thing Eccles

Gruditch
Hmm... I like that Idea. I still have about 2 weeks or so to decide, so I'll look at all options before I decide.
Cheers all,
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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by Gruditch »

http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/

Dave, I find this site handy for a price guide.

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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by Bill S »

Thanks for that post Eccles very interesting and informative.

Cheers

Bill
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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by Dave McCormick »

Well I am thinking this setup:

Canon 500D Canon EF-S 18-200 mm F3.5-5.6 IS lens and Sigma APO 120-400mm f/4.5-5.6 DG OS HSM lens. Anyone know how the Sigma lens is? Is a little shorter I know than the 50-500mm but does it have the quality of it? I already have Sigma 105mm Macro, so no need for a new macro lens.
Cheers all,
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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by Gruditch »

I'm sure that set up will serve you well Dave. I have met one or two people with the Sigma lens, and they were very pleased with it.

Regards Gary
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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by Dave McCormick »

Gruditch wrote:I'm sure that set up will serve you well Dave. I have met one or two people with the Sigma lens, and they were very pleased with it.

Regards Gary
Thanks Gary, I'll let you know how I get on with it.
Cheers all,
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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by eccles »

Dave, FYI
http://www.cameralabs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=53656

Gary (Gruditch) is probably going to be astonished at the following comment :shock: :
Having seen a real life comparison yesterday between my 70-400 Sony zoom, which I consider to be excellent, and the Canon 100-400mm L which I believe Gary was using, I think I can safely conclude that you won't get a better 400mm zoom for your Canon.

Check this link:
http://www.ukbutterflies.co.uk/phpBB2/v ... 8&start=20
We were in the same location shooting a butterfly in a tree. I can assure you that we were a long way away from the subject and Gary's photo can't be far from a 100% crop. at F6.3 it's only 1/3 stop from wide open.

I feel you should think long and hard about what your priorities are before spending such considerable amounts of money.

Regards,
Mike.
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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by Rogerdodge »

Dave
I previously owned the Sigma "Bigma" 50-500 EX, (which must NOT be mistaken for the seriously inferior 150-500).
I then got the Canon 100-400 a I had a requirement for IS (I was going to be in an environment where a tripod or monopod were not usable).
The Bigma was/is a great lens, and you would not be disapointed with it - however, the Canon 100-400 is just a touch sharper, and the IS really works.
There are times when I wish I had that extra 100mm reach - but not many.
The price difference - £1000 for the Bigma to £1300 for the Canon may be the clincher for you.
Shop around on the web for much better prices than these though.
Good luck Dave - prices seem to be rising all the time now - so sooner rather than later is my advice.
Cheers

Roger
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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by Gruditch »

eccles wrote:Gary (Gruditch) is probably going to be astonished at the following comment :
Having seen a real life comparison yesterday between my 70-400 Sony zoom, which I consider to be excellent, and the Canon 100-400mm L which I believe Gary was using, I think I can safely conclude that you won't get a better 400mm zoom for your Canon.
:shock:

They may have been around for donkeys years, but if your a Canon owner, looking to get a wildlife lens, and you want the versatility of a zoom. IMHO, in it's class, the 100-400L IS, is best you can have.
But to get one, Dave will have to forego the 500D,( with it's movie mode ), and the 18-200 IS, don't see that happening. :lol:

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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by Pete Eeles »

Completely agree. If you're a Canon user - the 100-400mm L-series lens is "the dogs" (as I'm sure Rogerdodge would put it :) ). In the winter months, it's permanently attached to my DSLR (whereas a macro lens takes its place during the summer months!).

Cheers,

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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by Dave McCormick »

Thansk all for your input. I got the 500D with 18-55mm IS lens and Tamron AF 18-200 mm F/3.5-6.3 XR Di-II LD Aspherical (IF) lens. I decided to keep my 400D as well and still have around £1000 left, so I want to use that to get the lens for birding and wildlife so I have not made my mind out on which one yet. The 100-400mm L lens is a little out of my price range I think.
Cheers all,
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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by Dave McCormick »

I had a short test of my tamron lens and its not as good as the Sigma 105mm Macro. Its an ok lens, good for macro, but not great if your serious as the f is only F/3.5-6.3, not 2.8 like the Sigma. I will continue using my sigma unless I need a a shot I can't get with the sigma but can with the tamron, then use the tamron.

I got this shot with it, of the full moon (x2 crop), resized to 800x600. Taken with remote and tripod on portrait at 2 seconds with flash on:

Image

I tested the tamron on a fly and it could not get close enough to it as I liked. I am now considering the Canon 100-400 L, but giving it a couple of weeks before I make a purchase of a long lens as I have things to do for a while and I'll be busy.

The one thing I found was that in 500D movie mode you have to use live view (I have not figured if you can use viewfinder) but its ok, have not recorded any movies yet to see the quality. There is also a x2 or x10 digital zoom function on movie mode.

The noise from the shutter is a little louder than 400D which I am wondering if it will affect butterflies, but only trying to take photos will tell that one. And as many stated and I now agree, live view is not really worth having, even if the canon 500D has a 3 inch screen which is very clear, strong colours and contrasts. Its a little ligher than 400D too which is good, but overall the difference is minimal in weight.

I am going to run a few tests with both my 400D and 500D with same lens on on same subject to see which gives better results, then I will know if the 500D is any much better than 400D. I am going out hopefully on sunday to butterfly hunt with a few people from butterfly conservation and I'll use my 500D then and see how well it performs. Hopefully we will be moth trapping the previous evening so I will be able to get shots of moths if we find any as well.
Cheers all,
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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by eccles »

Dave, I know you can't expect miracles with a 200mm zoom but I suspect you've shot the moon wrongly. It's possible AF didn't pick up on it properly being so small so maybe try again there, maybe using manual focus, and you can definitely turn off the flash! Metering off such a small subject may throw your camera exposure way off. You could try spot metering for starters, and if the metering spot is small enough then it'll give a good exposure, but if that exposes wrongly then try manual metering. Set your lens to f8 to get the sweet spot, and mount on a tripod. If you have mirror lock use it, failing that the 2 second timer will be almost as good. What is a common mistake is that moonlight is at night so expose long, right? Nope. The moon is essentially a sunlit landscape, and for 100 ISO that means 1/125 F8 or thereabouts, maybe 1/250.
To ensure your Tamron lens is focussing correctly look for some posts in line. Angle yourself diagonally to them and shoot one in the middle. This one should be sharp, and the ones in front and behind this should be out of focus.
I have a Sony 55-200 which is a rebadged Tamron. If I can see the moon tonight, I'll shoot a photo of it with that lens and post it here.
Regards,
Mike.
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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by eccles »

Something else just occurred to me. Looking at the colour of the moon suggests you may have shot it soon after it was rising. If this is the case, forget my previous post saying that you shot it wrongly as you might not have, just at the wrong time. Wait at least an hour after moonrise or you'll get all sorts of rubbish from the atmosphere messing up the image. Also mount your tripod away from the heat of the house.
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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by Dave McCormick »

eccles wrote:Something else just occurred to me. Looking at the colour of the moon suggests you may have shot it soon after it was rising. If this is the case, forget my previous post saying that you shot it wrongly as you might not have, just at the wrong time. Wait at least an hour after moonrise or you'll get all sorts of rubbish from the atmosphere messing up the image. Also mount your tripod away from the heat of the house.
Well first I shot the moon as it was rising as I wanted to get it like it was, with the reddish colour. I went into a middle of a field nearby to shoot it, and shot it with tripod and on manual focus, AF does not really work for such a subject as it won't get it in focus. It was a clear night with not many (if any) clouds so felt it was a good time to shoot it, when I wanted the reddish colour of the moon. When I turned off flash, all I got was a bright circle, not the shot I got with flash on, maybe I did something wrong with that, not sure.
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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by eccles »

Did you set your camera to spot metering? If you didn't, try that, but if you did and the image was overexposed then the image size was too small for the spot metering to work properly and manual exposure would be the way to go. Bracket your exposures around 1/125 F8. As for focus the image may not have been bright enough to focus on at 200mm because of the maximum aperture of F6.3. Try zooming back to get a larger aperture and you should then get an AF lock. Then, using the continuous focus setting, zoom in again.
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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by Gruditch »

Dave, don't forget that the Earth is spinning at 18 thousand miles an hour. To get the image sharp, have you tried running a bit. :D

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Re: Upgrading..500D maybe

Post by Dave McCormick »

Gruditch wrote:Dave, don't forget that the Earth is spinning at 18 thousand miles an hour. To get the image sharp, have you tried running a bit. :D

Gruditch
Might just do that, jk, get fit and healthy in process!
Did you set your camera to spot metering? If you didn't, try that, but if you did and the image was overexposed then the image size was too small for the spot metering to work properly and manual exposure would be the way to go. Bracket your exposures around 1/125 F8. As for focus the image may not have been bright enough to focus on at 200mm because of the maximum aperture of F6.3. Try zooming back to get a larger aperture and you should then get an AF lock. Then, using the continuous focus setting, zoom in again
Could have been the problem with metering not being right. I think it was on evalutive metering. If I get the chance to try another shot, I'll try something like you said, and I never knew about the house heat before, but you learn something all the time on here.
Cheers all,
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