www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

hi guy,
I think your spot on with your relativity thoery, but does it lead us to a conclusion.

Gary.

Hi all,
Just picked up on this thread. I'm certain that these are two different LTs - a very interesting situation! There are other areas of wear and tear (besides the hind right wing damage) that testify to this. The situation will become even more interesting if LTs are seen at this location in July. If they are, I'm coming over! Congratulations Ian, you've seen and photographed two UK LTs! Well spotted Gary.
Neil

geniculata wrote:hi guy,
I think your spot on with your relativity thoery, but does it lead us to a conclusion.
Gary.

Not really, but IF the two are from the same stock it does suggest to me they haven't travelled very far from their breeding site. If there's a population of mobile LTs just over the channel that's surely good news for recolonising the UK. At best, the two might be descendents of a single female that arrived in spring 2008.

As Sussex Kipper says, it's very exciting whatever, especially for Ian! The 'Two UK Large Torts' club is pretty exclusive and I shouldn't think it has many members!!

Guy

I wasn't aware my photos would cause such interest! I have examined the two different photos from Sunday and Wednesday and they are clearly two different butterflies albeit very similar. I haven't checked the photo I took on Saturday which was much more distant. Possibly three?!!

Ian,
If one was to go down the road of there being possibly a spring 2008 female migrant that had successfully laid eggs in the area and these are the overwintered progeny,how viable in your opinion is the local habitat to support this theory?
At woodhouse copse are there the variety of food plants available for reproduction and if so is this a site not well enough prospected in the last year for them to have gone unoticed if they were there?
On google earth the site looks to be a good mix of variable aged deciduous tree species and a fair sized copse running up to the north?

gary

Two, in exactly the same place at this time of year , I hate to be the one to say that dreaded word, but could this be a release

Gruditch

oh gruditch,
you just had to say the dreaded word,
you could have at least allowed us alittle time to revel in the possibility's :
gary.

Let me keep the flame of hope alive, at least a little longer! Where large tortoiseshells are resident, it is the norm to see several or even many at the same place at this time of year. Sadly, the day I announced I was going for videos (in a post higher up the page), the weather turned very cold and I was unlucky. But the previous weekend four had turned up in pretty much the same place, all within half an hour of each other. I've seen a dozen in a limited area in the past, and Matt Rowlings reported 15 a couple of springs ago. It's only in the summer that you tend to see them individually. I think they hibernate quite soon after emergence/dispersal in the summer. In the spring they appear in the plural at known hibernating sites, rather like Camberwell beauties. SO, there is at least a possible scenario where a gravid female immigrant last spring laid eggs at what she reckoned was a suitable site, at least some of the offspring hibernated at the site rather than dispersing, and these are they... Because of the tendency to hibernate soon, it is actually relatively easy for summer individuals to pass unnoticed.

Guy

Would released butterflies be out and about after hibernation at the appropriate time of year - as these seem to be? If they were released last summer, it was either by a local or someone is going to a fair bit of trouble to do so!

but if it were a release, could it not be possible, that someone had only just dumped them off before Ian's sightings.

Gruditch

hi gary,
I would have thought that a bit unlikely, as that surely would have meant that they had to over winter them as adults in a state of hibernation, that logistically would be more of a problem and just not logical. it would only add up if they were out to purposefully decieve.
if someone was releasing i would of thought that their objective would be to try and reintroduce the species as a priority and so release them freshly hatched later in july. but then what do i know ive never captive raised butterflys before and im only assuming it problematical.
perhaps someone who's had experience raising these before could enlighten us
gary.

Having visited Woodhouse Copse over each of the past three days, and seen no sign of the LTs, I was pleased to hear from John Rowell who first saw the LT ten days ago that he had seen two separate ones today, just after I had left the site!
If the weather stays bright and sunny it would be worth paying a visit to the Isle of Wight.

if the Somerset Large Tortoiseshell has survived the winter it should be fluttering around the Orchard Wood/Witch Lodge area now. The area supports a White-letter Hairstreak colony so could be the first site for recolonisation of the county one day.

Ian Pratt wrote:If the weather stays bright and sunny it would be worth paying a visit to the Isle of Wight.

Is it much of a walk fro the Ferry, cuz it's a arm and a leg to take the car over. Especially as just like the LT down Swanage, it will bugger of before I get there.

Gruditch

Am I missing something here, because Butterfly world is only 2km away. Has this source been ruled out?

Hope they hang around for the weekend

Any friday sightings appreciated

Mark

It is about 4-5 miles from Ryde where the ferry comes in but if it is sunny there is a great chance of seeing the LTs. You can catch a bus to Palmers Road Wootton and then there is a walk of about a mile.

Very unlikely to be from Butterfly World in Wootton as they specialise in more exotic butterflies.

Still there today. Photos attached- not great quality as it was high up on an ash sapling and against the light.

I would just like to say a public 'thank you' to Ian Pratt and John Rowell for all the information they have provided regarding the Large Tortoiseshells at Woodhouse Copse (and John's sightings here in previous years). After one failed attempt when the weatherman lied, I struck lucky today. The now very worn looking male is still holding territory at the second bend in the ride, where I at least managed a 'record shot' on the ground. He's constantly dogfighting with Commas and Peacocks, particularly after about 2pm, although I did briefly see him up high at c.11.45am. At about this time a second, much fresher LT was in the uppermost branches of a densely flowering sallow, about 300m down the ride. This one's a good deal more elusive and from its 'jizz', may well be a female (it doesn't behave in a territorial manner and had no interest in attacking other butterflies). Congratulations to Chuck on seeing your first LT! Also here: Comma, Peacock, Red Admiral, Speckled Wood, Brimstone, Large White and Green-veined White.
Neil

And I thought I was obsessed!

Great post Neil.

Can't wait to show the missus. You make me look normal

Cheers,

- Pete