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Re: Pauline

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:55 pm
by MrSp0ck
Hopefully many people are learning about the early stages from your posts, its good to pass on the lifestages information as its useful for the future conservation of butterflies as we understand more about their needs.

The Glanvilles should be getting near a skin change, mine have now spun a big web over the plantain and hide inside it at night.

Re: Pauline

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:17 am
by Neil Freeman
Fascinating stuff in your recent reports Pauline and accompanied by some superb photos, I look forward to following their further development.

All the best,

Neil.

Re: Pauline

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:30 pm
by Pauline
Thank you Guy. I very much appreciate the compliment. D'you know, when I started this diary I never dreamed I would get comments like this but I have had a lot of help from other members - and the subject matter is inspiring :D

What a lovely thing to say - thank you so much David. I am pleased that so many folk seem interested in these WLH as I am finding the cats fascinating (as you can probably tell :lol: ).

Wish I had 15 Elms near here Pete! Well, 0ne would do as I have a one hour round trip for fresh branches. You probably noticed my shot of the Elm at Cosham on 20 February which was already in full flower :shock:

That is a really good point Martin. I am certainly learning both from the WLH and the Glanvilles and if anyone else is too then that is a bonus :D

Thank you too Neil. I just can't resist posting more shots of them and yesterday I managed at last to get shots of all 4 (tho' No. 6 has disappeared again :roll: )
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Re: Pauline

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:54 pm
by bugboy
More lovely shots there. I think their cute 'fuzzy slug' look belies their ravenous appetites!

Re: Pauline

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:22 pm
by Pete Eeles
I wonder why the largest larva prefers to feed on the remaining flower buds, rather than the leaves, with which it is perfectly camouflaged. I guess that the leaves don't have the nutrients required, given that they are pretty under-developed, while the larva is pretty over-developed! One can only assume that this asynchronicity doesn't happen in the wild given the "camouflage" exhibited.

There's a long-held belief that WLH larvae require flowering elms to make it through, and your experiences would seem to substantiate this, with even a late-instar larva preferring flowers to leaves. However, I know that WLHs have been reared in captivity on nothing but leaves which would seem to contradict this!

Cheers,

- Pete

Re: Pauline

Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:16 pm
by Matsukaze
I was wondering if the larva might be growing so fast because the flowers and seeds are far more nutritious than the leaves, and the larger it gets, the more it is capable of eating. All other things being equal, trying to go through the larval stage as fast as possible makes sense, as there is less time that the larva can be predated, but this one has got ahead of the foodplant and it would not be camouflaged in the wild, and probably get eaten.

Re: Pauline

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:49 pm
by Pauline
Thank you Buggy. It is true that they are now eating huge amounts. Today I knew I would need some fresh branches so decided to check out an Elm in Petersfield that Paul had 'found' for me. Sadly, it was way behind the trees at Cosham and not yet suitable (that's if I was at the right tree Paul :roll: but your directions were clear). I continued on my way to Cosham but on arrival I was dismayed to find the gate permanently locked and a sign indicating that it was to stay that way. Gaps in the hedges had been blocked up - not that I would have thought about squeezing thru :wink: ! There were other Elms in the vicinity but branches were way out of my reach. There was nothing else for it but to go to reception and after a couple of phone calls and alerting the ground staff I was given permission to cut off some small twigs. The buds there are now well past their best and are dropping off although there were plenty of leaves as these have been unfurling for a couple of weeks now. At least I am assuming these are Elm leaves as they are what I have been offering the cats? I have struggled in the past with Blackthorn and Hawthorn so I'm going to feel pretty stupid if they are not but perhaps that's why they are ignoring them.
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It will be interesting to see if the other cats follow the eating habits of No. 1 Pete. I have been offering leaves since the cat turned green (3rd instar) as you advised me, but the leaves have been repeatedly ignored despite my attempts to coax him onto it. His preference seemed to be the green seed pods as they developed (shown in earlier shots) which also provide good camouflage, but before they have had time to develop he has been decimating the buds. It has been suggested to me that cats have a hierarchical preference when it comes to various food sources and whilst it is apparently easy to get them to eat something they prefer, it is a great deal more difficult to get them to eat a food source lower down the hierarchy. I wonder if it is a case of the cats having a natural preference for the (possibly) more nutritious parts of the tree ie. the buds, and only resorting to the leaves because that is all that is available by that stage - especially given today's experience trying to find buds which were anything other than brown.

Your logic makes perfect sense Matsukaze. I would think it very feasible that the buds and seeds are the most nutritious parts of the plant and it seems that in this case at least, camouflage is marginally less important than the need to progress development. They are eating me out of house and home :lol: Thank you for your thoughts and views.

On the subject of development, No 1 is progressing in leaps and bounds and (sadly) not too far away from pupation - Peter was absolutely right! I have taken lots of shots over the last couple of days as he is changing rapidly now. I still find it interesting how the time of day, light conditions, etc can change appearances - he can appear a solid olive colour but sometimes adorned with pink, beige and a variety of other colours. Photos taken over the last couple of days:
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Re: Pauline

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:39 pm
by Pauline
.... and a few more from today:
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Tonight No. 1 is well and truly into the pupation process as I see he has now firmly attached himself onto the branch. A couple of days ago he buried himself into the oasis - which is what his branches are in - and I wondered whether to 'dig' him out or whether to leave him as I know some of the other Hairstreaks pupate in the earth/leaf litter. I managed to get him out eventually otherwise I would not have been able to water the oasis to keep the branches hydrated. I provided him with some soil and leaf litter but he has chosen this position:
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Re: Pauline

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:09 pm
by Pauline
I have been watching the development of my Glanvilles with interest but also with some frustration. They are very active and adventurous, spending quite a bit of time on the inside of the mesh. As a result I have been somewhat reluctant to remove the mesh for photos in case of loss or escape, as they inevitably drop off when disturbed. However, I took a chance today as I recognised that they are growing, shedding their skin, spinning webs and doing all those Glanville things - and I am not getting any shots. They are not an easy cat to photograph because of their colour and because they are so active but as it is over a month now since they came out of hibernation I decided to give it another try.
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I believe the 2 above have already shed their skin whereas the little one below has not:
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Despite all the years I have lived close to Wrecclesham and all the visits I have made I never did look for the immature stages so I am aiming to record their environment with some of these images to provide a bit of context. This is one of the webs which is quite in the centre of the plant:
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These individuals chose to shed their skins on the mesh:
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... and doing what they do best:
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Re: Pauline

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:37 pm
by Matsukaze
Is the pupating WLH going to be safe from being eaten by the other WLH larvae? I know this can happen with some moth species, but am not sure if it occurs with hairstreak larvae as well.

Re: Pauline

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:48 pm
by MrSp0ck
Matsukaze wrote:Is the pupating WLH going to be safe from being eaten by the other WLH larvae? I know this can happen with some moth species, but am not sure if it occurs with hairstreak larvae as well.
Green Hairstreak and White-Letter Hairstreaks will readily eat other larvae after the 1st instar, and pupae are an easy target as they cant escape. Im not sure if the other 3 UK species of Hairstreak will eat other larvae, but i would expect they do too

Re: Pauline

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:20 pm
by Wurzel
It's great to see the Glanvilles - they're funny looking Cats :D Just wondering did they come from HB?

Have a goodun

Wurzel

Re: Pauline

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:58 am
by Pauline
Thank you Matsukaze and Martin for sharing this and giving me the benefit of your experience. As a result of your comments I have separated out the pupa and I am watching the other larva carefully. They did used to be on separate branches but as they are getting larger they have become more mobile. Better to be safe than sorry.

Hi Wurzel. Martin was aware of my growing interest in rearing and very kindly has allowed me to be guardian of a small number of cats from the webs he has been monitoring. They are fascinating and very different from the Hairstreaks but incredibly difficult to photograph.

Re: Pauline

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:58 am
by MrSp0ck
Wurzel wrote:It's great to see the Glanvilles - they're funny looking Cats :D Just wondering did they come from HB?

Have a goodun

Wurzel
The 18 or so Glanville larvae were handed over to Pauline at AES last October, to look after overwinter, So the method we use for Fritillary and Dingy Skipper larvae hibernation is more widely known, as we have well over 90% survival of overwintering larvae.

The larvae originate from the HB stock, where since the hard winter of 2012/2013 which ended most Glanville colonies on the mainland, and Autumn 2013 only 13 larval webs were found on IOW, a small number of larvae have been hibernated overwinter using our above method, and returned to HB in the spring.

There was well over 99% survival through the winter, the [3] losses were from wandering escapee larvae after they woke up and tried to eat Passionflowers before they were seen. The photo in my diary shows about 7 webs.

Re: Pauline

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:48 pm
by Pauline
A much more comprehensive explanation Martin - clearly some successful strategies going on over there :D

I have to return to the WLH as I find the pupal stages (of all butterflies) incredible. There have been noticeable changes in this pupa over the last 3 days so the following shots record the changes from 23rd March until a couple of hours ago :D :
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Re: Pauline

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:39 am
by Goldie M
Fascinating stuff Pauline :D I'm just catching up again on postings :D Can't wait to see the BF's in their full glory. :D

I've been over to Hall-Lee-Brook a couple of times since I posted the Comma and the Small Tort, Nothing! which I can't understand because on the days that I went there the weather was lovely :shock:( We didn't see one Butterfly.) I can only think they've gone to the near by gardens, very disappointing. :( I just hope that all the grass cutting they did last year hasn't affected them. :(

Your really into the different stages now with the cats Pauline, I'm learning a lot from your posts and shots and find it very interesting. :D Goldie :D

Re: Pauline

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:20 pm
by Pauline
Thank you Goldie - I'm finding it all pretty fascinating myself! On checking the cats this morning I was delighted to see No. 2 eating leaves!!!!! I was just soooo pleased, mainly because any decent buds are becoming incredibly hard to find. As the day progressed, No's 3 & 4 also decided they would try the leaves :D . So, only have to find buds for No. 6 now. The following shots show their development starting with No. 2:
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... and this is No. 3:
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... and last but not least, No. 4:
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Re: Pauline

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:39 pm
by trevor
HI Pauline,

You are certainly filling some gaps in our knowledge of the early life stages.
All your larvae look so healthy. You deserve some stunning images of the
adults when they emerge !.

Keep up the good work,
Trevor.

Re: Pauline

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:18 pm
by Pauline
You are very kind Trevor :D . I also hope you are correct :lol: As you can no doubt tell I am a little bit obsessed with these cats :roll: :lol: . Their camouflage is amazing and their behaviour equally so. I had expected No. 2 to start pupating today given when he hatched in comparison to No. 1. However, rather than selecting a nice leaf or bud to attach himself to he is mimicking the behaviour of No. 1 by pretending he is a different sort of Hairstreak and trying to pupate on the ground, in a hole or crevice - usually somewhere really inconvenient - so I am trying (so far without much success) to deter him. The weather here today has been shocking with hailstones, heavy rain and gales so these shots were all taken indoors in poor light. However, I hope they give an idea of how well camouflaged these cats can be:
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.... and last but not least, No 6 eating his skin after a recent moult. I have so far failed to see any of them actually shed the skin but there is still time:
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Re: Pauline

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:14 pm
by Matsukaze
Lovely photos - you could try coming up to Somerset to get your elm flowers, as here on the Mendips the elm is only just coming into flower.

If you want to grow your own wych elm, there is a guide here http://treegrowing.tcv.org.uk/grow/tree-recipes/wychelm which I have been using successfully; I am hoping to start planting out some of the trees in the next couple of weeks.