www.ukbutterflies.co.uk

The recent discussion about an unusual blue (http://avondiary.net/images15/chalkhb.jpg) indicates how uncertain an identification based solely on physical appearance can be. The Victorians did a brilliant job in separating those features that are significant to determining a species and those which are not (colour and size being examples of the latter).

DNA analysis now provides powerful new techniques, although these open their own 'cans of worms'. Unfortunately, these techniques require removal of specimens to a laboratory (until someone comes up with a Startrek-style 'Tricorder' for use in the field). DNA can be collected from dead specimens, which leads me to ponder how rarely one finds dead butterflies. Nature does a remarkable job of cleaning up the debris very quickly!

Since DNA can now be identified from very small samples of tissue, perhaps someone could come up with a protocol for collecting suitable material from living specimens, without actually having to kill them. I suspect we would learn a lot of new facts about isolated populations that could help future conservation efforts

MikeOxon wrote:Since DNA can now be identified from very small samples of tissue, perhaps someone could come up with a protocol for collecting suitable material from living specimens, without actually having to kill them. I suspect we would learn a lot of new facts about isolated populations that could help future conservation efforts

I am often asked to provide specimens of butterflies for DNA analysis and I always refuse, on the grounds that I am a field naturalist, not a scientist, and my relationship to butterflies is more as lover than researcher. One group of researchers (from Sweden, if I remember correctly), however, did tell me that a leg would suffice and that a butterfly could survive quite happily with one leg missing. They were comparing the DNA of violet coppers around Europe and wanted to analyse my local colonies. I said I would be prepared to take them to a colony (I never commit location details to electronic form) but they never got back in touch.

Guy

Wouldn't an empty pupal case or shed larval skin provide enough for a DNA sample?

Jack

Padfield wrote:.......a butterfly could survive quite happily with one leg missing...........

I'm reminded of a passage in an early railway book, providing advice to passengers planning to use one of these new-fangled contraptions:

"In the first place, get as far from the engine as possible - for three reasons:- First, should an explosion take place, you may happily get off with the loss of an arm or a leg .............." [Coghlan 'The Iron Road Book' (1838)]

Ideas of 'happiness' seem variable!

Mike

Hi, Gang
You're gonna love this!
I was recently sent a shot from Daneway Banks of something that appeared to be [you guessed it!] spot on for Silver-studded Blue (male!). Of course the species does not breed at the site so the alarm bells rang. After discussions with the warden, and further research, it was agreed it was a Large Blue in which the forewing spots are completely absent. A very rare form indeed.
Ho, hum!
Adrian Riley

adrian riley wrote: it was a Large Blue in which the forewing spots are completely absent.

The exception that proves every rule

Thursday 25th June 2015

Whixhall Moss, Shropshire

Large Heath 61
Large Skipper 5-10
Speckled Wood 3
Brimstone 3 (second brood I believe)
Ringlet 1
Small Copper 1
Prees Heath, Shropshire

Silver Studded Blue 100-150
Small Heath 20-30
Meadow Brown 10-20
Small Tortoiseshell 4
Ringlet 2
Painted Lady 1

A couple of shots taken at High Elms LNR this morning of a male Large Skipper , with something
stuck to or jammed on it's proboscis .
The first shot shows the butterfly trying to remove it with it's front legs .
Any ideas ?

Those are orchid pollinia. They attach to the proboscis and stand erect at first, preventing self-pollinisation of the flower. Then they lie flat as they dry out, allowing the proboscis to enter a different orchid flower and pollinate that.

Guy

Padfield wrote:Those are orchid pollinia

Truly fascinating Guy, I've also seen this and wondered what it actually was, until now the answer had evaded me...thank you What a great information resource UKB's is...

BW's

Bill

"When in doubt - venture out"

Padfield wrote:Those are orchid pollinia. They attach to the proboscis and stand erect at first, preventing self-pollinisation of the flower. Then they lie flat as they dry out, allowing the proboscis to enter a different orchid flower and pollinate that.

Guy

Guy ,

Thanks very much for your reply . Greenie

As you know Guy, I have enthused about Matthew Oates’s recent book. You have a totally different insight into the lives of butterflies – things most of us never knew - but equally fascinating. So when can I anticipate being able to enthuse over the “Padfield Papers”?

Jack

It appears this June has been a good one for the Marsh Fritillary in Gloucestershire. Good sightings of this insect at several widespread sites across the county. There are even reports with pictures of Gloucestershire Marsh Frits on the Gloster Birder website.

MikeOxon wrote:

DNA analysis now provides powerful new techniques, although these open their own 'cans of worms'. Unfortunately, these techniques require removal of specimens to a laboratory (until someone comes up with a Startrek-style 'Tricorder' for use in the field). DNA can be collected from dead specimens, which leads me to ponder how rarely one finds dead butterflies. Nature does a remarkable job of cleaning up the debris very quickly!

It does indeed. Rare to find a life expired butterfly except the occasional one seen in a spider's web or captured by a Crab Spider. Where do all the life expired bees go to I wonder. There are many Bees visiting my garden each year from the massive Bumble Queens to the smaller honey bees. Now retired, I can spend more time in my garden for observations. Bees soon to expire are a frequent sight on the paving slabs of my patio. Crawling along very slowly unable to fly ~ despite my attempts to get them to do so ~ and they simply stop and die later. Over the Spring Summer period, dozens of bees near their end. I have not had time in the past to observe bees at the end of their days on such a scale. Too busy moving swiftly on to stop and look I guess. They are always there though. In their dozens or more...

CC

It appears this June has been a good one for the Marsh Fritillary in Gloucestershire.

Some 40 years ago you pointed me to an excellent hillside for Marshies (private land) not a million miles to the south of Andoversford. I wonder what that hillside is like today? The locality still looks promising on Google Earth.

In the nearby woods, PB.Frits were easy to find - I thought nothing of it at the time as they were expected in any suitable woodland clearings. Marsh Frits sometimes turned up at Bulls Cross near Painswick.

Good old days.

Jack

Jack Harrison wrote:CC

It appears this June has been a good one for the Marsh Fritillary in Gloucestershire.

Some 40 years ago you pointed me to an excellent hillside for Marshies (private land) not a million miles to the south of Andoversford. I wonder what that hillside is like today? The locality still looks promising on Google Earth.

In the nearby woods, PB.Frits were easy to find - I thought nothing of it at the time as they were expected in any suitable woodland clearings. Marsh Frits sometimes turned up at Bulls Cross near Painswick.

Good old days.

Jack

In 1975-76 they were just about everywhere. The late Peter Cribb IIRC, once told me he released a load of Marsh Frit larvae on Crickley Hill.... Long Barrow area.

That would be back in the early-mid 1970s Jack. Some of those fine grassy hillsides I remember are now wooded. Either commercially planted conifers or natural progression of rampant Ash trees towards Climax Beech Woodland as with many former grasslands on the higher Cotswolds. My favourite Cotswold Grassland I frequently visited back then is now a recently purchased county Nature Reserve... apparently now known as Rough Banks. I submitted numerous records to Monkswood for that site which then included most of the blues, all the usual Cotswold Frits including the Marsh ( last seen by me there in 1977 ) with numerous White Letter Hairstreaks breeding on the Wych Elms ( long gone ) which skirted the grassy slopes. I have found WLHs ova on Blackthorn in winter when searching for the other Hairstreaks known to use that foodplant. I kept one of those WLH ova and bred it out on Sloe/Blackthorn flowers and freshly opening leaves. It produced a superb female specimen.

adrian riley wrote:I agree it is female. I cede to my betters. Wish you were on my side! Don't always trust a professional-they are human, too.
Well done, Gang.
Adrian

Hi Adrian - I just wanted to thank you for helping us confirm the ID of this critter and also be prepared to debate, discuss etc. - a very healthy thread if ever I saw one and great insights into the mind of a taxonomist to boot - possibly one of the toughest jobs on the planet!

Cheers,

- Pete

First 3 Silver-washed Fritillaries for the season seen at High Elms LNR nr. Bromley last Saturday by fellow enthusiast Keith .
I too had 3 specimens just after lunch today . One pictured nectaring on Wild Privet flower .

My first Gatekeeper of the year this evening on my local patch just to the west of Heathrow. Dave

Living for the weekend is a very apt description for my butterflying aspirations. This weekend was no exception. Perhaps I was spurred on by knowing that Wurzel was steadily notching up his species count (my foray plans had been derailled due to the holiday and illness on return), that I decided for one last ditch effort for the Small Pearl bordered Fritillary (despite an iffy weather forecast for Salisbury on Sunday). I even gave up the opportunity to go to a local bio-blitz organised by the Surrey Wildlife trust.

And so it was that I and my daughters met up with Wurzel at the eastern Clearing of Bentley Wood, only to spend the next hour sat in the car as the rain relentlessly tumbled down. Eventually it seemed to relent so we took a chance and off we went into the clearing only for it to start up again . I hadn’t brought a coat as I’d wrongly assumed the forecast would be (as usual) more pessimistic than the actuality . If anything it was the opposite.

Despite the rain butterflies still flew, my first Ringlet and a Small Skipper of the season were highlights. I can’t ever remember being that much excited by a Small Skipper but these were little orange jewels, immaculate fresh out of the can examples . Another season first was the Marbled White and in this respect the weather helped as I find MW’s are notoriously difficult to get near when it’s warm and sunny. Wurzel as ever was doing most of the spotting also coming up with this Small Tortoiseshell. The insect’s ‘shivering’ movement told of its desperation to wing away, but the weather was keeping it rooted to the spot. Despite extensive searching we didn’t find any Small Pearls so we decided to have our lunches and afterwards give it one last try. My daughters had made their minds up and stayed in the car . On the way back into the clearing I brought a couple of Burnet moth pheromone lures. These had been donated to me and others in the Surrey Moth Group, to monitor the presence of the 5-spot and narrow-bordered 5-spot in Surrey. I had already tried them out at Dawney’s ridge (Heath) with no results so to ‘validate the lures’ I thought I’d give them a go in the clearing . Did they work? You bet …well actually the 5-spot one did with 21 rampant moths collected. The NB lure brought in two but I suspected these might not have been the Narrow-bordered moth but a function of a slight ‘non-specificity’ or cross contamination of the pheromone. All the moths were subsequently released of course. At that point we were just about to call it a day when I spotted what I'd come for:- a Small Pearl hunkered down in the grasses. It took to the wing as the cameras went in, but didn’t go far enabling me to get this shot. Persistence can often pay . Afterwards me and the girls went off to Martin Down (hoping for Dark-green Fritillary) but the weather got even colder and the light gloomier (June fcs! ***ody heat-wave mid-week ). The highlight of the visit was trying out the lures again this time a split of eight v seven moths for 5-spot / Narrow-bordered 5 spot respectively. Lures well and truly validated . Phil