help with Greek butterflies please!

[petesmith]

Hi Folks,
Would appreciate some views on the ID of a few skippers and meadow browns photographed last week in Greece. All skippers photographed at low altitude along the Vyros gorge, Kardamili, about an hours drive south from Kalamata on the Mani peninsula. I am thinking Mallow and possibly oriental marbled for skippers 1 and 3. Skippers 4 and 5 I was thinking Pygmy but would optimistically like to be convinced they are Mediterranean, as this would be a life tick for me! And are those just normal Meadow Browns? The hind-wings look very scalloped. They were photographed a little higher up at around 200m altitude. All thoughts and comments much appreciated!
Thanks.

Pete

[Reverdin]

Hi,
I would opt for ...

1) - jurtina - tho somewhat telmessia like if it flies there
2) = jurtina
3) - pumilio
4) - pumilio
5) - orientalis
6) - orientalis
7) - alcea

but see what the pro's think

[petesmith]

Thanks Reverdin! Your comments are much appreciated and it is nice to have someone else confirm what I realistically thought the IDs were. Still think the Meadow Browns are a little unusual though...but according to my copies of T&L and Pamperis, telmessia is only found on eastern Aegean islands and is absent from Peloponnese.

[John Vergo]

I agree with Reverdin, but the last 2 (6-7) is alceae

[Padfield]

I'm definitely out of my competence zone when it comes to the Balkans, and have to rely on the books. But it does seem to me, despite some strong indicators towards telmessia, that the meadow brown is indeed jurtina. Above all, if the colours in the first picture are true, I think the hindwing underside just hasn't got that rather dark grey feel, broken by a distinct orange band.

I'd agree with Paul's take on the rest, with John's correction on the penultimate skipper, which I think is alceae, not orientalis (but the previous one is orientalis - though there again, I couldn't rule out flocciferus, which I am very familiar with and which is extremely variable).

Oh, I wish I were there ...

Guy

[John Vergo]

Sorry I didn´t have the fully attention at no 5, I am quit sure that it is a flocciferus ( Tufted Marbled Skipper) pleased look at the forwing, the 3 white (clear) spot near apex, that is not normal for orientalis.

[petesmith]

Many thanks John and Guy.
The orientalis/flocciferus debate is particularly interesting. I have limited experience of both (orientalis on Corfu once several years ago, and flocciferus in the Pyrenees and French Alps on a number of occasions, but always at fairly high altitude).
My first impression of the butterfly was that it was orientalis, and looking at distribution maps in Pamperis, this is certainly by far the commoner in this part of Greece, especially at such low altitude. Flocciferus has always appeared to me to be a sizeable skipper, and although the photo gives no clue as to size, this example was not particularly large. I take your point John about the three spots near the apex making flocciferus more likely, although I have also seen photographs and illustrations of orientalis with similar markings. A shame I didn't get an underside shot which might have given subtle further evidence either way!
In any case, the Mani is a glorious part of the world with some great insect life, scenery, food, wine and friendly locals!