Large Blue

[Gruditch]

I don't remember saying that the Large Blues in question had English blood, only a light hearted suggestion that they may consider them self's rather English as their family have lived here for 25 generations or so . I apologise if this caused you any confusion.
I'm glad to see your doing your bit conservation Wise with your bit of land.
I think in generations to come when all the people who where around to see the original Large Blue, are all pushing up Daisy's. Then attitudes will change and it will be appreciated for what it is, and few will know or even care that it is a reintroduced species. Look at your own attitude towards the wittle bunny wabbit, you seem quite happy that they are doing so well on your land, yet they are a introduced species, foreign if you like.

Gruditch

[Piers]

Gruditch makes a good point.

The concept of what is or isn't an alien species is very interesting. A fine example of this are the Little Owl and the Golden Pheasant:

Take the Little Owl; every one loves these jaunty little critters and barely cares that they have only been around in this country since their introduction in 1889. They're a welcome sight in the English countryside and generally loved by all.

The Golden Pheasant however, provokes a very different reaction on the occasion that they are encountered in the wild - with their gaudy hues these birds are certainly considered by most to be an escapee (at best).

Yet the Golden Pheasant was introduced to Britain in 1845 some 40+ years before the Little Owl and thus surely has a greater claim to the British countryside and to the title of 'British' bird.

Anyway, that's all a bit of a digression really. I would prefer to see a greater emphasis on the creation and maintenance of a mosaic of habitats around the countryside, rather than this one (alien?) species being the focus of so much time, money and resources...blah blah blah.

Felix.

[Matsukaze]

I would prefer to see a greater emphasis on the creation and maintenance of a mosaic of habitats around the countryside, rather than this one (alien?) species being the focus of so much time, money and resources...blah blah blah.

This is more or less what is happening, at least here in Somerset. There are at least six large-scale habitat creation/linkage projects taking place, three of which are aimed at butterflies, all of pretty similar scope. In the Poldens, habitat for the Large Blue, but also for Chalkhill Blue and Duke of Burgundy; in the Blackdowns, for Duke of Burgundy, Wood White and Marsh Fritillary; and on Exmoor, for Heath Fritillary. Except for the Chalkhill, all of them would be extinct in the county were it not for long-term efforts to maintain the few pockets of habitat in which they survive. I'd imagine this is true of most of these species nationally, as well.

On a different subject, what makes the reintroduced Large Blues a separate subspecies from the extinct ones? They are functionally the same - having the same lifecycle and emerging at the same time when put on the same sites - and are not as far as I can tell visually different. Yet, amongst the extinct butterflies, Cornish Large Blues were obviously not as dark as Cotswold ones, but the two were not considered different subspecies...

[Piers]

The continental races of the Large blue were sufficiently different morphologically to consider them separate subspecies from the nominate race (arion arion).

The Cotswold large blues did have a slightly different hue 'on average', however this is only really discernible when specimens are viewed en masse. There was no where near enough of a difference on a genetic or morphological level to afford the Cotswold race the status of being a separate subspecies. This was a geographical cline.

A species may be separated into subspecies where populations (usually through geographical isolation) exhibit sufficient differences from 'type'. These differences (although of course not sufficient to determine the individuals of a population as a new species) have usually occurred through the evolution, either to adapt to specific conditions relating to the environment or geography, or sometimes simply through the isolation of a population overtime with an 'incomplete' genetic pool. i.e. certain genetic traits have become dominant through 'chance' during isolation that the population evolves (with no discernible evolutionary benefit) to become significantly different from 'type'. The result is a population (or populations) that have sufficient morphological differences or identifiable DNA sequences from members of the other subspecies and nominate form of the species.

There continues to be a degree of debate over the classification of subspecies, particularly in invertebrates, and debate continues over such 'subspecies' as the 'cretaceous' form of the Silver Studded Blue.

Anywayhoo, The English Large Blue was sufficiently different in appearance certainly for it's continental brethren to be awarded different subspecies status. Similarly today, Large Blues from Sweden are significantly and consistently different in appearance to those examples from France (for example) for such distinctions to be clear to see.

Taxonomy is such a broad and complex topic that it is difficult to be succinct about it. Anyway, I hope that it part at least answers the question.

Finally, I am sure there are those that will say 'what's the point'? why go to all this fuss to protect different subspecies? A Silver Studded Blue is a Silver Studded Blue after all, and they all look the same! Well, take that argument to species level - why conserve all the different Plebejus species? they all look the same (certainly to the layman). That thought should provide the answer.

Felix.

[Paul]

Interesting opinions overall. Must say I'm surprised there is any lack of support for Collard Hill. It is fantastic place to go. One can't argue the Vikings are contaminating a remaining gene pool this time.... Personally hope they spread all over the place... I was told there was some local spread & hope this continues. Here's to wild thyme & sabuleti ( & all those who helped create & look after the site)

[Piers]

Here here!

I'm glad that someone has come out and said that!

to quote my original post:

Allow me to play devil's advocate a moment...

I just like to stimulate a little debate. I know that not everyone likes that, but it is supposed to be healthy!

Felix.

[Rogerdodge]

Paul wrote-

... I was told there was some local spread

The better spread is from the Green Down site, where they appear to be moving along the railway line, and are turning up in gardens in the nearby village!
Roger
(incidentally Paul - that is a stunning photograph!)