unknown frit

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:23 pm

This is among my "marbled frit " images from Bourg St Maurice 1st week in July... now I wonder if it might be niobe, or even dk green... sadly I don't have an uns. shot...

any advice eagerly sought! :? :?

Post by **Padfield** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:34 am

This is definitely not Brenthis and can only be aglaja or niobe as you suggest - the weak sex brand rules out adippe, as well as the wing shape (and the curve of the submarginal spots). I strongly favour aglaja, for many little reasons, some of which I can put my finger on and some not - things like the delicacy (not) of the markings, the way the veins peter out on the forewing rather than continue neatly black all the way to the margin &c.

Guy

Roger Gibbons · Post by **Roger Gibbons** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:22 am

I’m glad I’m not the only one who finds that niobe and aglaja can be confusing. The books usually group niobe and adippe together on the same page, but even though adippe can also be very lightly marked, they are easy to separate with a good sight of the forewing curvature, with aglaja on a different page and almost implying that niobe and aglaja are easy to tell apart.

In the far south of France niobe is common and always (in my experience) of the form eris and the males are very lightly marked so not too difficult to identify. I also find that the eris (and often niobe of the nominate form) hindwing round postdiscal spot in s4 is either absent or just a tiny pinprick, and I don’t think this is true for aglaja. If you can get to see it (sometimes they rest with hindwing fully extended), the spot in s6 is also visible and this is tiny in niobe but always (I think) strong for aglaja.

The main differentiator, but I do not know how indicative or reliable this is, is the solidity of the upturned V-shaped marginal marks, especially on the hindwing. In niobe, I generally find them to be quite thin Vs (sometimes more curved than pointed) but in aglaja they seem to be more solid and often almost triangular. Maybe this is an example of what Guy is saying about the delicacy of the markings, and certainly Paul’s forewing black markings are quite heavy and suggestive of aglaja.

Of course, one sight of the underside would render this discussion unnecessary…

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:40 pm

many thanks again.. can't imagine how it got into wrong folder. into aglaja it goes!!.. pleased really, I want to know when I see niobe!!

Post by **Padfield** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:58 pm

Visit the Val in July, Paul, where eris is common!!!

Or for the nominate form, Switzerland again:

This is a female that seemed to be laying on a tree trunk near my house. But I left her at it and couldn't find the egg(s) afterwards.

Guy

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:07 pm

Oviposturing

Post by **Padfield** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:10 pm

Exactly!!

Guy

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:55 pm

fine images!... hope to seesome sometime.. I'm off to French Pyrenees in July.( Les Angles, - South East ).. but not the Val I think... hope something of interest shows up there for my trouble!!

Roger Gibbons · Post by **Roger Gibbons** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:12 am

The niobe eris underside is the most fantastic mix of beige and orange markings – here’s one from my local patch (in southern Var) with delicate black edging to the beige markings. The books tell you to look for the black spot within the unh small beige basal patch as being indicative of niobe, but I’ve never seen this in eris.

If you’re going to the eastern Pyrenees, the adippe form cleodoxa is quite common there and looks superficially similar to niobe eris, so you’d need to get a photo or get a good look.

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:46 pm

Roger,
That's a beautiful photograph!

I love the ginger mohican hair-do too

Martin.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:37 pm

If I come away with photos of anything a quarter as good as these I'll be happy!!