Spanish species ID

[Part timer]

Hi

Grateful for any thoughts on identification of the following, all taken yesterday in a small area of the Sierra Teveda, Andalucia, Spain.

I think the first is Sage Skipper, but I'm also considering Oberthur's Grizzled.

The second may be Marbled or Southern Marbled Skipper - is it possible to tell from upperside only?

I belive the third may be Escher's Blue. The fourth is of the same insect, but with a Lang's Short-tailed Blue in the foreground, providing a useful size comparison.

All expert, or non-expert, opinions, welcome.

Regards, Rupert

[Roger Gibbons]

Sage, Southern Marbled, Escher's, Lang's.

Roger

[David M]

Sage, Southern Marbled, Escher's, Lang's.

Roger

Amazing.

I wasn't sure about any of them to be honest.

[Tony Moore]

Astonishing expertise, Roger, I'm consumed with admiration. I thought Sage and possibly Escher's due to the strong underwing markings, but to be so sure.... Brilliant .

Tony M.

[David M]

Of the four, Escher's was the only correct ID that sprung into my mind, and even then it was a tentative.

Roger is unbelievable with pyrgus. He even trumps Guy Padfield (which isn't something you can often post on this site).

[Part timer]

Thanks for all responses, particularly to Roger for the identifications. I'm please that the Sage and Escher's confirmed my own thoughts.

On the subject of Marbled v Southern Marbled Skipper, what is it that determines the difference between the two? As it happens, I was in the Sierra Loja yesterday in an (unsuccessful) quest for Eagle Owl, but I happened to capture the attached photo in passing. Like the others, it was taken in blinding sunshine at some distance with a 300mm lens, so not much chance of getting a close look at the insect itself, but I'm guessing Marbled or Southern Marbled.

I'd be very grateful for Roger, or others, to take a look and give their opinion, perhaps with an explanation if a confident identification can be given.

Cheers, Rupert

[Roger Gibbons]

That looks like a female Mallow Skipper (Carcharodus alceae) to me, but without a clear view of either surface, it's a best guess.
See if Guy agrees.

Your original Southern Marbled (C. baeticus) was on its larval hostplant Marrubium vulgare (or so it appears to me) which is usually a good indicator of baeticus, as it tends to be a sepcies "tied" to its hostplant. It is a species that is reputedly common in Spain but rather rare and localised in France.

I've put what I believe to be the defining characteristics on my baeticus page, so can I refer you to that rather than clog up UKB pages repeating it.

Roger

[Padfield]

I'm pretty confident that last one is a mallow skipper, though it would obviously be nice to have a closer view. I don't think I would have hesitated if a very probable southern marbled hadn't been shown first.

Guy