Extinct butterflies in the last 200 years

[Gruditch]

Saw this article in the Daily Mail, England's lost world: 421 species - including mammals, birds and plants - have become extinct over the past 200 years

Hmm, are some of the butterflies listed fact, or fiction


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... years.html


Butterflies Butterflies Aporia crataegi Black-veined white 1890s/1920s

Butterflies Boloria dia Weaver’s fritillary c1890

Butterflies Carcharodus alceae Mallow skipper c1925

Butterflies Carterocephalus palaemon Chequered skipper 1976

Butterflies Euchloe simplonia Mountain dappled white


Butterflies Iphicles (Papilio) podalirius Scarce swallowtail c1850

Butterflies Lycaena dispar Large copper 1864

Butterflies Lycaena tityrus Sooty copper c1890

Butterflies Lycaena virgaureae Scarce copper 1860

Butterflies Nymphalis polychloros Large tortoiseshell c1953

Butterflies Parnassius apollo Apollo c1850

Butterflies Pontia daplidice Bath white 1900

Butterflies Pyrgus armoricanus Oberthur’s grizzled skipper c1860


Regards Gruditch

[Padfield]

Amazing.

You'll remember this thread, Gary, from 2010:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3993

It's very depressing. Conservation has to be predicated on facts, not lies, when so much hangs in the fragile balance.

Guy

[Padfield]

The Natural England report from 2010 is still available, even though the link in the above thread no longer works. It can be accessed here: http://publications.naturalengland.org. ... gory=10002

Section 2 claims 18 butterfly species have been lost in the last 200 years and at the foot of the first page 7 of these are listed - including turquoise blue, allegedly lost in 1915, and Oberthür's grizzled skipper, allegedly lost in 1860 (the only year this species has ever been recorded in the UK!).

The Species Recovery Trust lists the lost butterfly species here:

http://www.speciesrecoverytrust.org.uk/ ... utterflies

I find it quite profoundly upsetting to feel the need to lie about what is, in truth, a tragedy.

Guy

[dilettante]

Saw this article in the Daily Mail, England's lost world: 421 species - including mammals, birds and plants - have become extinct over the past 200 years

Hmm, are some of the butterflies listed fact, or fiction

I think this will help: http://www.shouldireadthedailymail.com/

[Lee Hurrell]

I think this will help: http://www.shouldireadthedailymail.com/

[Gruditch]

You'll remember this thread, Gary, from 2010:

Nope, I must be getting old.

Regards Gruditch

[MikeOxon]

Amazing. You'll remember this thread, Gary, from 2010:viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3993

I didn't remember the thread but found it made fascinating reading. It looks as though the Daily Mail were quoting from a discredited Government report.

I particularly enjoyed Piers comment :
"Recent job vacancies for the organisation [Natural England] have specified that knowledge of the subject matter is not required. It would appear that this recruitment policy is bearing fruit..!!"

This seems to apply to a lot of Government departments nowadays.

Mike

[David M]

Shaking my head at this. Just where do they get this information from?

[Roger Gibbons]

Quite a few of these are distinctly dubious. Here are a couple of pages from British Butterflies by W S Coleman 1893. He seems to be content to accept almost anyone’s word that they have seen a particular species. Getting included in a book is the first stage of the creation of the myth.

Apollo, Purple-edged Copper, both extremely unlikely in my opinion. The latter may well have a been a misidentification of a Large Copper. Scarce Swallowtail almost certainly did occur here. Weaver’s (Violet) Fritillary is so like Pearl-bordered that mistaken identity is highly likely without a specimen to examine. I have commented on Arran Brown before and even Coleman thinks it dubious; he refers to blandina which was then the name for Scotch Argus, and the females certainly could be confused from an upperside view alone, although I doubt the males could be confused.

From the Daily Mail list, I would also have huge doubts about Mountain Dappled White (female Orange Tip and a fevered imagination?), Mallow Skipper (Dingy?), Sooty Copper (Small?), and Oberthur’s Grizzled Skipper (Grizzled?). Is there any evidence for any of these?

[Padfield]

Many of the records are real, Roger - but mostly of accidental introductions or adventives. In some cases, like armoricanus, the date given for the 'extinction' is the only year the species has ever been recorded in the country! It's a little like saying wallabies went extinct in the wild the day they recaught that one that escaped ...

'Mountain dappled white' has never been recorded in the UK, but dappled white has. There is ongoing confusion about the taxonomic status of ausonia, crameri and simplonia, and the four specimens of dappled white were recorded probably correctly, by the then current literature, as simplonia. Curiously, the latest UK butterfly list lumps simplonia and crameri, so this might still be the correct name. But 'mountain' dappled white is certainly incorrect!

Guy

[Roger Gibbons]

My principal gripe was that some of the species recorded would be prone to misidentification, having common(er) species that appear at least superficially similar, but I'm sure it's true that some species - such as Apollo - may be correctly identified but could only be unnatural introductions. On that basis, Map should also be included.

No mention of Short-tailed (Bloxworth) Blue (as a youngster, I spent quite a few hours meandering around Bloxworth), or Mazarine Blue.

If there is to be a list of extinctions, it should, in my opinion, be restricted to those that can be shown to have occurred naturally in these isles.

[nomad]

Hi all. I am afraid that many of those species that were allegedly lost in the last two hundred years that are listed, were never British residents in the first place. The true extinct butterflies in my opinion are

Lycaena dispar.
Aporia crataegi
Maculinea arion. The British subspecies with many interesting geographical races, including the very dark form from some of the Cotswold localities.
Cyaniris semiargus.

In England. Carterocephalus palaemon.

What is much more serious is the massive decline in our British butterflies through habitat change and loss, which continues today.

Regards Peter.

[nomad]

Oops missed out Nymphalis polychloros from my list.

[JohnR]

Any chance of Natural England becoming extinct? I once ask them for the reason that there is an SSSI a mile from here and was told that I wouldn't understand because it was a geological outcrop