help

michaelrosy · Post by **michaelrosy** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:44 pm

have seen a butterfly not in any identification book. could not photograph.nearly all black large wings with deep scarlet markings. can anyone help?

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:14 pm

Hi Michael,

Sounds like it's either a Peacock or, less likely, a Camberwell Beauty.

Cheers,

- Pete

michaelrosy · Post by **michaelrosy** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:36 pm

not a camberwell beauty or a peacock. something i have never seen before.

Post by **Padfield** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:12 am

Red admiral fits the description, if there were splashes of white. Can we rule that out? This is the time of year for red admirals.

Guy

Mike Young · Post by **Mike Young** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:27 am

Alternatevly....what about it being an exotic escapee, any butterfly houses in the area ?

Trev Sawyer · Post by **Trev Sawyer** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:31 am

A friend of mine recently saw a dark coloured "butterfly" with scarlet patches fly past him before landing on the trunk of a tree. He said it was definitely bigger than a red admiral. After talking to him for a while, he said it folded its wings back over it's body at rest. My obvious suggestion was a Red Underwing Moth (Catocala nupta) which often flies during the day. On checking in a book, he confirmed that's what it was. There are similar moths with different shades of red (Scarlet, dark crimson etc.) but these tend to be a bit smaller...
So if you only saw the insect in flight, it could well have been one of those. They do look very dark in flight with conspicuous scarlet markings and are about 1.5 x bigger than a red admiral. They are also definitely on the wing at present.

Trev

michaelrosy · Post by **michaelrosy** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:40 am

i saw this butterfly resting. it was definitely not a red admiral as there were few red markings, more like lines of deep scarlet on a deep black wing the wing shape was like a cabbage white, broad and rounded. as far as i know there are no butterfly farms in the area

Post by **Padfield** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:50 am

Any chance of a sketch, showing the location of the black and scarlet?

You could use this outline and mark it up...

Guy

Trev Sawyer · Post by **Trev Sawyer** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:57 am

like this?

http://pbc.codehog.co.uk/bhs/pics/20060 ... 40_20b.jpg

Trev

michaelrosy · Post by **michaelrosy** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:40 am

i am rubbish at computers, so cannot fill in sketch.no idea how to do it. most of the wing was black with a scarlet stripe round the edge with a little white and i think blue on the top wing-tip. never seen anything like it. it was in a garden in prestiegn, powys, where i was visiting on saturday.

Post by **Padfield** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:58 am

Your description still sounds very good for red admiral! So perhaps the question is, how does it differ from this? That might help pinpoint its true identity. There are several excellent pictures of red admiral on this site, including here:

http://www.ukbutterflies.co.uk/image.ph ... Jul-07.jpg

Guy

Charles Nicol · Post by **Charles Nicol** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:04 pm

did it look at all like this ?

charles

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:24 pm

doubt it was an escapee owing the frosts we have had (in my part of the country anyway). People often get small tortoisehell and red admiral mixed up. My bet is that it was a red admiral (females are slightly larger than males). At this time of the year it is the most likely option and matches the description of our only black and red coloured UK species.

michaelrosy · Post by **michaelrosy** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:44 pm

sorry but no the wings were rounded with no indents at all.

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:15 pm

Like this?

michaelrosy · Post by **michaelrosy** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:49 pm

no not like that. wings like large white, softly rounded scarlet markings on both wings, white with a little blue on top wing-tips

Post by **Padfield** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:19 pm

If it's not a red admiral then I can't think of any native butterfly or moth it might be. Very strange!! If you can think of any details you have omitted, Michael, whether to do with the colours, shape, size or behaviour, please do post them. But on the available information I, for one, reluctantly admit defeat.

I'm very happy, though, that there are still some mysteries left in life. Wouldn't it be depressing if there weren't?

Guy

Dave McCormick · Post by **Dave McCormick** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:54 pm

OK, Eighty-Eight Butterfly? (Callicore Manimuna)? OK, I have no idea and usually I am good with this. Was wings long? what size was it? How did it fly, fast, slow?

michaelrosy · Post by **michaelrosy** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:59 am

thanks for replies chaps. i am still puzzled myself. i have never seen anything like it before.it was the size and shape of a camberwell beauty. slow flying but in black and red with white and blue. i will keep an eye out for it and maybe snap it if possible.

Andrew R · Post by **Andrew R** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:21 pm

Sounds like someone has been breeding none native stocks or a butterfly house has had one escape.
I know people breed Limenitis Populi (Poplar Admiral).
Could be one that has got out.

Andy