August 2013

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David M
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Re: August 2013

Post by David M »

Butterflysaurus rex wrote:
David M wrote:
Butterflysaurus rex wrote: Comments are most welcome.
I have a comment, Rex.

How did you get that female Clouded Yellow open wing shot?

I presume she'd just landed and hadn't fully settled?
Well I'd love to tell you that it was all down to my AWESOME skills, not to mention tremendous butterfly charming abilities :wink: But it was nothing more than some really good luck, I pressed the shutter just as she was about to fly off. However I'm perfectly happy for everyone to forget that and think I'm really good at it :lol:
Well, you sure DID get lucky, because that looks like a natural pose, which, of course, we all know it isn't.

Splendid image. You have got off to a red hot start on this website!
millerd
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Re: August 2013

Post by millerd »

Seconded - I love the helice Clouded Yellow. And the open wing female - whenever I press the shutter at the moment of take-off, all I get is a pretty picture of an unoccupied flower... Nice shot.

Dave
Butterflysaurus rex
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Re: August 2013

Post by Butterflysaurus rex »

To be honest David I couldn't believe my luck when I saw that pop up on my PC screen when I got home :D Just don't ask me to take another one like it, I could try for the rest of my days and not get another one like that!

Thanks very much Dave, I've seen at least 5 Helice CY this year and all except one were in excellent condition. they can be tricky to spot in amongst all those large and small whites though so there may have been more around than I thought.
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Jack Harrison
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Re: August 2013

Post by Jack Harrison »

I pressed the shutter just as she was about to fly off.
Burst mode, ie quick fire shutter, produces interesting results and is probably a more reliable way to get open wing shots like that.

It is amazing just how fast some creatures move. I was photographing a sparrow at 5.5 frames per s cond. One frame it was settled without as much as a ripple of a feather. By the next frame, less than 1/5 second later – gone: it was not even visible flying out of the edge of the photo. My goodness, it must have taken off incredibly quickly.

I once deliberately used the burst mode to get a picture of a Hooded Crow taking off. I began shooting and at the appropriate moment my assistant (long suffering wife) shooed it into the air. The same helper-technique could be used for the butterflies that always settle with closed wings: Green Hairstreak, Small Heath, Brimstone, etc., although I have never tried it myself.

Jack
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Re: August 2013

Post by Butterflysaurus rex »

I've never had a go with the 'burst mode' on my camera but I think I will give it a try in the near future, I'm not sure if my macro lens would be the best tool for the job though. Any recommendations? I'd also like to have a go at capturing some Dragonflies in flight.

Thanks

J
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Jack Harrison
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Re: August 2013

Post by Jack Harrison »

I have found that it is important not to frame too tightly otherwise the target is liable to be off the edge; it all happens so quickly.

Here are two crow pictures at just under 20 milliseconds apart. Not processed in any way other than re-sized and pasted together for comparison.
(Wife out of frame on left in shooing mode!)

Image

I can’t see why burst shouldn’t work with macro but that advice not to fill the frame too tightly is even more relevant. Crop later as required.

Jack
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dilettante
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Re: August 2013

Post by dilettante »

Jack Harrison wrote: I can’t see why burst shouldn’t work with macro but that advice not to fill the frame too tightly is even more relevant. Crop later as required.
If the camera tries to autofocus between shots, macro may cause it to struggle. If focus is fixed before the burst, I don't see a problem, but getting a sharp shot won't be easy. As well as keeping the subject in frame, stepping back and cropping later will also increase your chances of the subject staying in focus as it moves off, as the depth of field will be greater. (And DoF is likely to be minimal if you minimise shutter speed to freeze motion, meaning the aperture is wide open).

Alternatively, just use video mode and take a screenshot of the critical frame!
Butterflysaurus rex
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Re: August 2013

Post by Butterflysaurus rex »

Thanks Jack, you've touched upon the reasons why I thought my '100mm macro prime lens' might not be the best tool for the job. With the 100mm prime you have to get reasonably close to your subject otherwise it will becomes too small, as you rightly pointed out you must give your subject enough room within the frame to capture the moment of action. I've spoken to a lot of photographers who swear by using telephoto lenses around the 100mm - 400mm range for this type of work. I've seen some fantastic shots of Dragonflies in flight with this type of lens. I think that this lens might also be good for Butterflies too.

Having said this here's an attempt by me to capture some action with my 100mm prime that isn't too awful.
CY 1.JPG
J
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MikeOxon
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Re: August 2013

Post by MikeOxon »

Butterflysaurus rex wrote:Any recommendations? I'd also like to have a go at capturing some Dragonflies in flight.
Like the others who have commented, I was very impressed with your open-wing CY shot, especially as I had previously posted a very mediocre in-flight shot, merely to illustrate the upper wing pattern.

Jack is right that the reaction time of insects is amazing. Through the viewfinder, I saw my butterfly sat on a flower but, by the time the shutter fired, it was about a foot away! Notice that the proboscis is still unfurled and the abdomen tilted down, possibly to act as take-off flaps!

With the advent of relatively cheap, large storage cards and cameras, like your EOS 7D, with high speed continuous modes, I tend to use these as a default setting. It's surprising how, even with a static subject, one shot out of a burst of three is often just that little bit sharper than the rest. Of course, it means you have to spend time sorting through an awful lot of photos (and be ruthless in throwing away the 'seconds').

The same approach is essential for in-flight shots (dragonflies, birds, or whatever) There is no way of anticipating the wing movements and a high-speed sequence will include some shots with more pleasing wing arrangements than others. Even 8fps can seem frustratingly slow at times and easily misses the crux of the action, so a good sense of timing (plus luck) is still necessary. In the case of dragonflies,watch their movements carefully. They often have a favourite spot, where they will hover for several seconds at a time, so position yourself to take advantage of this behaviour and keep very still, as they are incredibly sensitive to movement.

A prime (i.e. non-zoom) lens is better for this type of work because it will have a wider aperture, so allowing a higher shutter speed, and should have very fast AF. Your macro should be fine in these respects, especially as longer focal lengths can make it difficult to keep the subject within the frame, though, of course these are essential for bird in-flight shots.

I would say that you have to shake off any inhibitions about not shooting until things are perfect! Yes, you will get lots of rubbish but, so long as you regard these as part of a learning curve, and work on how to recognise when good shots are likely, you should find your success rate slowly increases.

Of course, luck will always play a part in these shots but you can set yourself up to maximise the chances of success! Good luck :D

Mike
kevling
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Re: August 2013

Post by kevling »

Rex,

Love the clouded yellow shot you took.

I recently took some myself in France, using the burst mode on my camera. I waited for a CY to settle and fired away until it took flight. 40 shots later, I got a result (see part 3 of my Chamonix trip report in the overseas forum). It's a good job we are digital now, otherwise that could have cost me a fortune sending off the films to Truprint! :D

Regards
Kev Ling
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MikeOxon
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Re: August 2013

Post by MikeOxon »

Butterflysaurus rex wrote:an attempt by me to capture some action with my 100mm prime that isn't too awful.
That's an understatement - good shot! :) Personally, I would crop out the half-butterfly and just present the central subject, which stands as a very good photo on its own.

Mike
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Re: August 2013

Post by Butterflysaurus rex »

Thank you very much indeed for your advice and kind comments Dilettante and Mike, I'm still learning and I doubt I'll ever stop :D
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Re: August 2013

Post by Butterflysaurus rex »

kevling wrote:Rex,

Love the clouded yellow shot you took.

I recently took some myself in France, using the burst mode on my camera. I waited for a CY to settle and fired away until it took flight. 40 shots later, I got a result (see part 3 of my Chamonix trip report in the overseas forum). It's a good job we are digital now, otherwise that could have cost me a fortune sending off the films to Truprint! :D

Regards
Kev Ling
Cheers Kev I'll have a look, Thank you for the compliment, I can only take half the credit though, the other half belongs to lady luck :D
Butterflysaurus rex
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Re: August 2013

Post by Butterflysaurus rex »

MikeOxon wrote:
Butterflysaurus rex wrote:an attempt by me to capture some action with my 100mm prime that isn't too awful.
That's an understatement - good shot! :) Personally, I would crop out the half-butterfly and just present the central subject, which stands as a very good photo on its own.

Mike
Thanks Mike, I think I will crop it down for my Butterfly album, I thought it was good to post the whole unedited picture as it was relevant to our discussion about the best lens for this type of shot.

Best

J
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MikeOxon
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Re: August 2013

Post by MikeOxon »

Butterflysaurus rex wrote:it was relevant to our discussion about the best lens for this type of shot.
I agree and, in this forum, it is always of interest to see aspects of butterfly behaviour. The raised abdomen of the female is a clear "get lost" signal to the approaching male.

Mike

p.s. from the quick-fire discussion on this subject, it seems that perhaps we are all sitting with our morning coffee by the laptop!
Butterflysaurus rex
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Re: August 2013

Post by Butterflysaurus rex »

MikeOxon wrote:
Butterflysaurus rex wrote:it was relevant to our discussion about the best lens for this type of shot.
I agree and, in this forum, it is always of interest to see aspects of butterfly behaviour. The raised abdomen of the female is a clear "get lost" signal to the approaching male.

Mike

p.s. from the quick-fire discussion on this subject, it seems that perhaps we are all sitting with our morning coffee by the laptop!
Yes the poor fellow didn't get what he was after, a pity as I have never seen a mating pair of CY's, there might still be a chance before the season ends though.
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Jack Harrison
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Re: August 2013

Post by Jack Harrison »

Manual focus or autofocus hold is an option. But the speed of action requires a fast shutter speed and the changing distance of target means a small aperture for depth of field - a difficult combination. High ISO (one area where DSLRs do have advantages) and of course bright light are probably essential. I failed miserably on a wildlife trip last week attempting to photograph Gannets doing their characteristic dive/plunge. Light was poor and my photos were awful. This is best from some 100 or so frames. I don’t show it as a good photo but to illustrate the problems.
Gannet.jpg
Gannet.jpg (10.68 KiB) Viewed 505 times
Gannets are among my favourite birds. Earlier in the year I even watched one soaring in a thermal. Now in my gliding days, although I often soared with Buzzards and Gulls sadly I never did so in the company of an Eagle or a Gannet.

Jack
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Jack Harrison
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Re: August 2013

Post by Jack Harrison »

dilettante:
Alternatively, just use video mode and take a screenshot of the critical frame!
I very rarely shoot in video so not sure, but isn't the resoloution lower than with stills? Fewer pixels (video) would give less scope for cropping a screenshot. Burst mode with my camera gives full 12mp resolution up to 12 frames/second but at a faster burst rate gives only 5mp or even 2.5mp. I would have though that video is similarly downgraded.

Jack
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dilettante
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Re: August 2013

Post by dilettante »

Jack Harrison wrote: isn't the resoloution lower than with stills? Fewer pixels (video) would give less scope for cropping a screenshot. Burst mode with my camera gives full 12mp resolution up to 12 frames/second but at a faster burst rate gives only 5mp or even 2.5mp. I would have though that video is similarly downgraded.

Jack
Yes, quite. 1080p video is only around 2MP per frame before you take into account any compression etc. And despite the higher frame rate, I think the per-frame exposure time is still likely to be longer and therefore more blurred. You won't get a shot to hang on the wall, but maybe good enough to post on a web forum at a few hundred pixels across.

I'm only speaking theoretically as I haven't tried it either. I did take some video of butterflies last weekend for the first time just to give it a go, but generally I can't be bothered with handling video. I don't often use burst mode either because I hate the sorting afterwards., but if I was after open-wing or in-flight shots, that's the way I'd go. I think my camera does 12fps full res.
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Jack Harrison
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Re: August 2013

Post by Jack Harrison »

dilettante says
I don't often use burst mode either because I hate the sorting afterwards.
That can be a pain but "Windows Photo Viewer" offers a very quick way to scroll through and delete as required until you come to THE shot. Other software no doubt offers similar functions, but Windows Photo Viewer is quick and easy and moreover should not need to be installed - it (usually) comes by default with MS Windows.

Jack
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