Clouded yellow identification.

[P.J.Underwood]

This one was at Kithurst Hill today.It seems rather pale.My query is how can one distinguish between a clouded yellow that might be old and washed out and a pale clouded yellow?
I assume this is the former as they are more common.
P.J.U.

[kevling]

P.J.U,

I am sorting through some photos taken last week in France, where I think I may have bagged Clouded Yellow/Bergers & possibly Pale Clouded. I'm finding it tricky to be certain.
I am aware that the female 'helice' clouded yellow is a lot duller, so could potentially be compared with a pale clouded yellow (or washed out clouded yellow).
Like you I would make the call that it is a clouded yellow though, given the rarity of the pale clouded to our shores.

Regards
Kev

[John W]

I saw what looks like the same butterfly at Kithurst Hill on Sunday 11th. I just assumed it was a Clouded Yellow, it would be fab if it was actually a Pale Clouded Yellow

[Padfield]

I presume neither of you saw these butterflies in flight, as that would have left no doubt. If you did see them in flight, and thought they were clouded yellows at the time, and the doubt is only now arising, they are almost certainly clouded yellows, as the colours in flight are so different.

I incline towards male clouded yellow for P.J.U.'s, because of the very rounded apex to the forewing and the lack of any paler markings visible through the apical region of the wing. That suggests the apex is solid dark - thus only leaving male clouded yellow as a possibility. That's not 100% for clouded yellow - just an educated judgment.

John's is either a female clouded yellow or a pale clouded yellow, as the paler apical markings are clearly visible. The wing shape looks good for pale clouded, as do the markings - but this could quite easily be clouded yellow too.

I can't see anything definitive to say either of these is a pale clouded yellow and not a clouded yellow.

For future reference, if you have a sitting yellow that you haven't seen fly and don't want to flush, it is a good plan to take a picture of the wings into the light, if possible. This lets the upperside markings show through, permitting identification.

Guy

[Mark Colvin]

It may be useful to point out that over the last couple of weeks there has been a steady trickle of Clouded Yellows, Colius croceus, appearing at Kithurst Hill; including a single Colias croceus croceus f. helice, which was seen and photographed by myself and Colin Knight after Colin's original discovery.

I agree with Guy, for the reasons stated, that the pictures above are of two separate individuals; the second being most definitely a female (which I think I have photographed myself) and the first most likely a male.

As Guy states, a backlit image can be extremely helpful making the roosting Colias below a female Clouded Yellow.

Hope this helps ...

[Judi]

I took these two pictures at the Carnon Vally nature reserve near Truro in Cornwall earlier this month whilst on holiday, are they clouded yellow?





Fairly sure they are, but not having seen any before would like your opinion.

Thanks Judi

[Pete Eeles]

I took these two pictures at the Carnon Vally nature reserve near Truro in Cornwall earlier this month whilst on holiday, are they clouded yellow?

Yes indeedy

Cheers,

- Pete