Dogs

[Padfield]

In Switzerland, article 68 of the Ordonnance sur la protection des animaux, 2008, states:

1 Avant d'acquérir un chien, les futurs détenteurs doivent fournir une attestation de compétences qui prouve qu'ils ont acquis des connaissances sur la manière de détenir et de traiter les chiens. Les personnes qui peuvent démontrer qu'elles ont déjà détenu un chien ne sont pas tenues de remplir cette condition.
2 La personne qui assume la garde du chien doit présenter, dans l'année qui suit l'acquisition du chien, une attestation de compétences certifiant qu'elle a le contrôle de son chien dans les situations de la vie quotidienne. Cette règle ne s'applique pas aux personnes qui ont suivi une formation:
a.
de formateur de détenteurs de chiens conforme à l'art. 203;
b.
de spécialiste chargé d'élucider les causes des comportements canins frappants.

(Rough) Translation:
1 Before acquiring a dog, the future owners must provide a certificate of competence proving they know how to keep and treat dogs. Those who can show they have already kept a dog are exempt from this condition [this clause effectively meant the law could be introduced over a period of years, rather than have several million owners all trying to get certificates at once].
2 The person taking charge of the dog must, during the year following the acquisition of the dog, present a certificate of competence certifying that he or she has control of the dog in ordinary situations in daily life. This rule does not apply to people who have followed a course:
a. as a trainer of dog-owners, in conformity with article 203;
b. as a specialist charged with elucidating the causes of notable canine behaviours

I'm glad to say I've never encountered the kinds of situation people are describing in this thread. Brutalised dogs and barbaric owners have no place in a civilised society. Perhaps people should be lobbying for an educative and preventive law on the lines of article 68 for the sake of both dogs and people.

Should anyone be interested, the full text of the Ordonnance sur la protection des animaux 2008 can be found here: http://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classified-c ... index.html. It is available in French, German or Italian.

Guy

[P.J.Underwood]

Guy,
Unfortunately in this country we have two types of dog owner.Firstly the normal pet owner who will do anything to see that their pet fits in with modern society,and the those who have pets as a macho image.These later ones are usually bull terrier types,Rottweillers etc.The dogs are usually of the dominant male type,whereas the females are often very sweet.Put two of these dominant males together and you are asking for trouble.The solution-licence each dog and bring in a Swiss type test.There isn't room on our island for everyone and everything!
P.J.U.

[Goldie M]

I find when a dog runs towards you are barks at you turning your back to them some times does the trick, Dogs are not stupid as we all know and this does flumax them a bit ignoring them as though there not there at all works for me. Also carry a big stick with you Goldie

[Susie]

There is a third type of owner. Those whose dogs are spoiled and indulged children who cant put a paw wrong in their owners eyes.

[P.J.Underwood]

The vets like this third type.
P.J.U.

[jonhd]

Carrying a big stick sounds like A Good Idea - I'll need to do that, for genuine reasons, in the not too distant future, anyway!

Turning one's back is what I've usually done, but if the mutt keeps on barking / growling / advancing, it requires more courage than I possess. My favoured variation on back-turning is to simply avoid looking at dog or owner, and carry-on as if I hadn't noticed they were there. I've found that can silence aggressive dogs - probably because they're not getting anything resembling a response.

Keep the suggestions coming. (Guy's would be the best long-term solution, but - in this country? Can you see any party in power having the cojones?

Thanks all, Jon

[Susie]

Do you ever ask them owners to call their dogs off?

[millerd]

Do you ever ask them owners to call their dogs off?

The last time I did that resulted in me being told I shouldn't be there in the first place as I wasn't from round the area... My experience generally with that approach has been apologies (but little or no action) or excuses ("he's not usually like this/only being friendly/wouldn't hurt anyone") - I think this is your third category, Susie. As for turning my back - I have several times been nipped on the ankles when doing that, and prefer to know where the animal is. I've also found that carrying a stick (usually a walking pole which I sometimes have anyway) seems to result in increased aggression from dogs that are that way inclined. Unfortunately, unless a dog is on a lead attached to human big enough to hold it back, I feel very uncomfortable until it is well away - a result of too many bad experiences.

Dave

[Pauline]

I have just caught up with this thread and it reminded me of an incident a couple of years ago whilst I was taking photos of WLH in a built-up area of Gosport. A female approached with 2 large dogs, both on leads but lunging and snarling at me and getting uncomfortably close as she attempted to pass by in a relatively confined space. I had little confidence in her ability to control them and politely suggested that they would benefit from some training and better control. She immediately launched a verbal attack and accused me of being a paedophile on the basis that I had a camera, it was lunchtime and there was a junior school a mile down the road. She threatened to call the police and I encouraged her to do so as those dogs were more of a threat to the youngsters than I could ever be. Naturally, she didn't!!!

[Gruditch]

I think you would have to be crazy to turn your back on a aggressive dog. When I was a postman, we had regular talks by the dog warden. Their advise was if a dog is advancing in an aggressive manner, stick the boot in. Don't wait to find out the hard way if its going to bite or not. Yes you will have to deal with a irate owner, but better that than being mauled by a Staffy.

Regards Gruditch

[jonhd]

Blimey, Gruditch - there, in black & white, straight from the (ex-)postman's mouth. Stick the boot in! That's what I kind of suspected - and that turning one's back is not going to matter one jot, to an angry dog.

Thanks for your contributions, all.

Cheers, Jon

[Susie]

Conversely I have found since I have got a dog just how arrogant some people can be. Luckily my puppy is as soppy as a box of frogs but the amount of strangers who come up to him and pet him without a by-your-leave is amazing. Also children just run up to him and stroke him without their parents asking if it is okay to do so first. On Friday when another person's toddler had just run up to him and stroked him (he sat very still and allowed it which was a considerable achievement as he is just a baby himself) I suggested to the parent that in future it might be an idea if they ask the dog's owner if it is okay to do so and they just looked at me as if I was mad. If I made my dog chew their child's face off perhaps they would be more cautious in the future but it's not worth having my dog put down over.

So, I am still of the mind that the fault lies with people and not dogs

I heard about the yellow ribbon scheme today, which seems a good idea. Although if you can't trust your dog it shouldn't be in public anyway.

http://theilovedogssite.com/do-you-know ... bon_8-5-13

[Ian Pratt]

Just on the subject of dogs. My black Labrador Max was injured in a car accident on Saturday. The cost for mending his broken leg is going to be in the region of £2500- £4000! I am amazed at the cost and having done some research there seems no alternative short of having him put to sleep.

[jonhd]

Ian,
now I know why I see so many 3-legged dogs!

Susie,
thanks for the info on the Yellow Ribbon scheme. I don't think it makes much difference to how I behave when I come across an 'off-leash' mutt, however. TBH, I'm not really in the habit of trying to pet unknown dogs (yellow ribbon, or not)!

Jon

[Susie]

Just on the subject of dogs. My black Labrador Max was injured in a car accident on Saturday. The cost for mending his broken leg is going to be in the region of £2500- £4000! I am amazed at the cost and having done some research there seems no alternative short of having him put to sleep.

How terrible. won't your insurance cover it?

I think it should be illegal to own a dog without a minimum of third party insurance.

[Padfield]

Susie, I completely agree with you. Many people are simply not educated about dogs and take no responsibility for how they or their children might be provoking an animal. I adore dogs and take every opportunity to talk to them but if they are with their owner there are human and canine protocols to be followed. It's just a matter of politeness and respect.

I'm really sorry about your dog's leg, Ian. The cost is scandalous. When my dog fell (terminally) ill she spent three days and nights in the Tierspital in Bern, on a drip, with 24hr a day care from really lovely nurses, who followed up with phone calls and advice afterwards, and the total bill came to about CHF 500, which at the then exchange rate would have been well under £400. Like you, I'm sure, I would have sold my own kidney for her if it had been ten times as much, but that wasn't necessary. Surely most people don't have £2500-£4000 to spend if their dog breaks a leg ...

Guy

[Susie]

Is it possible for the rspca to pay the bill? It would involve you signing the dog over to them though.

[jonhd]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23578561

Jon

[Susie]

Took the dog to the park today as there is a lake there he can swim in. Between April and September dogs have to be kept on a lead but only mine and one other was. All the other dogs were running free and some were causing chaos. The sooner dogs are licenced and owns held accountable for them the better

And how did my dog managed to swim while still on the lead, well I went in with him!

[NickMorgan]

There are good people and bad people, good dog owners and bad dog owners, good dogs and bad dogs! (Yes, bad dogs are usually the fault of the bad owner).
I work as an Access Officer for my Local Authority. Of course we have very liberal access legislation here, meaning that you can access most of the countryside in a non-motorised, responsible manner. Problem is that people don't really understand what responsible is. Under the legislation, dogs must be kept under close control or on a lead. Many people don't seem to understand what close control means, either.
Before the legislation came out my job was quite fun, talking with landowners and other community members to try to build new path networks. These days I spend so much of my time listening to complaints by one access taker about another. It's not surprising that dogs are a very common complaint. People not cleaning up after their dog, dogs running out of control, etc. I also get a lot of complaints about horse-riders and cyclists. Most of the issues are because of a lack of consideration.
However, even well-meaning people get it wrong. I was told by a horse-rider that when people see her riding towards them they often try to be helpful and step off the path. However, sometimes they will then disappear behind a tree or bush and the horse will then become agitated as it thinks that it is about to be ambushed!!
It's all down to education, but the problem is that the people who need educating don't want to learn!

Ian - I'm sorry to hear about your Labrador. The same happened to Jimmy, our chocolate Labrador just over a year ago. Sadly his leg couldn't be saved, but it is amazing how well he is doing on three legs.