Greece id please

[essexbuzzard]

Hi everyone, i have recently returned from a butterfly holiday with Naturetrek. I think my European butterfly identification is slowly improving,but i would like a second opinion on some please?
My European experiance is still rather limited! All were taken at around 1500 metres.Thanks for any help,more to come.

[Padfield]

That is an enviable haul!

I believe the first blue is the Balkan Zephyr blue, Plebejus sephirus.

The next is, I agree, Ripart's anomalous blue (with a Plebejus species next to it). I also agree with the turquoise blue.

The skipper seems to be Spialia, and I can only see it as phlomidis, the Persian skipper. If that's right, then excellent spot!! I'm sure one of the Greek specialists, Nik or Misha, will confirm or otherwise!

I suspect the next is simply a weakly marked Ripart's, but I'm looking at these in bed, just before lights out, without access to the latest inventory of European 'Agrodiaetus'...

Finally, the last one looks like a common blue, icarus, to me.

Very nice piccies of very nice butterflies!

Guy

[essexbuzzard]

You are amazing,Guy! It must be well past midnight in CH, your ability to perform and enthuse at this late hour knows no bounds!
Thanks sooo much for your help.

[nik_s]

Hi Essexbuzzard,

Some excellent finds you've got there, and excellent pictures of them as well! I second Guy's ids; the anomalous blues are tricky but I'd say the first is definitely ripartii, and probably the second one as well. Skipper definitely Persian, congratulations!

Cheers,

Nikolay

[essexbuzzard]

Thank-you Nikolay very much for your help,and confirmation.

Here are a few more,mostly from the lower slopes of Chelmos,at around 1500 to 1700 metres. No Chelmos Blues,sadly!

The first two are the same adult,which i found roosting.

[Padfield]

Hi Buzzard. The first two pictures are sage skipper, Muschampia proto. A useful thing to recognise is that Muschampia lacks a spot at the base of s.1 on the hindwing underside. That spot is always present in Pyrgus. The blues, I think, are Balkan Zephyrs, Plebejus sephirus, again. The hairstreak is ilex (in sloe there are no spaces between the orange spots), then yes, you have anomalous blue (admetus) and silver-studded blue.

What great pictures from what must have been a great holiday.

Guy

[nik_s]

Hi Buzzard,

Another batch of great pictures; I particularly like (and envy) the Sage Skipper - never seen one myself...

Guy is spot on with ids as usual. I only have doubts for the last blue - could it be Idas? The subspecies baldur, which occurs in the mountains of the Balkans and Turkey, is very different from European Idas. The males have a dark purplish-blue upperside colour with a wide black border and are somewhat larger than Silver-studded Blues, but pretty difficult to distinguish only by a photo (there are pictures here http://nsbutterflies.com/splibg.html?f=lyc&s=pleida and here http://butterfliesofbulgaria.com/pleida.html). I'm away from my books now and I don't remember if Idas occurs on Chelmos, but I suspect it could. By the way, in guide books this subspecies is sometimes called magnagraeca, but this is a junior synonym hence the senior name baldur should be used.

Do you happen to have a photo of the underside? Also, a photo of the surroundings could be useful - baldur caterpillars seem to feed exclusively on a species of broom with yellow flowers (Chamaecytisus absinthioides) which is rather conspicuous, and at least in Bulgaria the Idas Blue is usually found close to this plant. The presence of the foodplant wouldn't prove anything of course, but an unsuitable landscape would give you a definite id.

Cheers,

Nikolay

[essexbuzzard]

Thanks again to you both. You have been most helpfull. I must confess,Guy,that not all my pictures came out as well as these! Just checked in Lafranchis and Tolman books and you are right of course,Guy! This Sage Skipper was on a walk before breakfast,i wouldn't have got near it in the heat of the day! I am so pleaed with it. Plenty of Jeruselum Sage,or Phlomis,nearby.

Don't have a habitat shot for the blue,Nikolay,but i did get one of the underside,not the best,see below. I think they were Silver-studded as they were small,and i don't recall seeing any broom nearby,but there was plenty of Birdsfoot Trefoil,or Lotus,which Silver-studded use in Britain. They were at about 1700M altitude,in grassy stony woodland edge habitat.

[essexbuzzard]

For the second half of the holiday in GR,we transfered to the Parnassos Mountains,which is where the next set of pictures is from.
The fritillary was like a Spotted,but half the sise. It could have run out of foodplant at the larval stage,of course.

Any help or advice is gratefully recieved!

[nik_s]

Hi Buzzard,

Here's my shot on your new photos:

1, 2, and 4: Plebejus [sephirus] brethertoni (the local [sub]species of Zephyr Blue)
3: Pyrgus serratulae (Olive Skipper)
5. Polyommatus dorylas (Turquoise Blue)
6. Polyommatus thersites (Chapman's Blue)
7. Melitaea trivia (Lesser Spotted Frit). Very small specimens are often encountered in arid places.

Regarding the blues from the previous post, uns photo looks like Silver Studded indeed, and your description is very definitive as well, so no doubts left there.

Cheers,

Nikolay

[Padfield]

I'm glad Nik called the Pyrgus because I would have hesitated! Admittedly, Greece does not have so many of these as we do in the Alps.

More nice pictures.

Guy

[Roger Gibbons]

If I had been shown the Pyrgus blind with no knowledge of location, etc, I would have said it was a very typical Safflower Skipper (Pyrgus carthami). The hindwing marks are very indicative of carthami and the irregular forewing cell spot looks right for carthami, too. The colouring, strength of markings, etc, all look right for carthami.

However, we have had heavily-marked serratulae on these pages before, and it may that carthami doesn’t fly in Greece, and usually local knowledge trumps all, so I wouldn’t contend Nik’s view. Altitude would be an indicator (perhaps negatively) as carthami usually flies above a minimum altitude of 500m or so and often much higher; so if it was seen at low altitude, this would be a pointer against carthami.

An underside shot would be conclusive, but rarely available unless they are puddling or roosting.

[nik_s]

I agree that heavily marked serratulae can be tricky to identify from ups. Usually carthami is larger, more greyish in appearance and has brighter white bands on hw; of course all that is highly variable and very subjective. More importantly though, as far as I remember carthami is extremely rare and local in Northern Greece (Falakro?, Rodopi); I don't believe it goes as far South as Parnassos.

Finally, here's serratulae from SW Bulgaria. Close enough I think.

Pyrgus serratulae

Cheers,

Nikolay

[essexbuzzard]

Thank you very much,again,for your replies.

Roger,didn't get an underside of the Olive/Safflower Skipper unfortunately but although it is found in the north of Greece,i think the range of carthmami runs out as you head south.

So i'm thinking serratulae,as Nikolay says.

Thanks again to you all!

[essexbuzzard]

Almost there!

Here are my last couple of photo's from GR.

At first i was thinking Reverdins,but now i'm going for Idas Blue. It stood out from the crowd of Silver-studded because it was much bigger! At about 1600M on a rocky sloping road verge in Parnassos. Both are the same adult.

Thanks for any help.

[Padfield]

Hi Buzzard. What are your grounds for thinking this is not sephirus? I'm not familiar with Greek versions of these species, but it doesn't resemble idas or argyrognomon at all and looks good for sephirus to me. I'm guessing the very few shiny scales in the black spots are influencing you. I'd be interested to know from Nik if these can be present in sephirus.

Guy

[essexbuzzard]

Hi Guy,thanks for your quick reply.
Yes,it was the hint of scales in the black,and also,on the upperside,the black border seemed thicker than the other Zephyrs i saw-but that could be my imagination!
Cheers.