Skipper ID Help

[Paul Wetton]

Apologies for the poor photo.
I originally identified this as an Orbed Red Underwing Skipper but now I'm not sure. Could it be Persian Skipper. The two white spots in the cell both appear to be of a similar size on the upper forewing and the start of the costa is quite pale. I'm just not sure.

Persian or Orbed Red Underwing

Any help would be appreciated.

Many thanks

[Mikhail]

Looks good for a Persian to me. Is this from south-west Bulgaria?

M.

[Padfield]

From what can be seen of the underside it appears the discal band is strong and unbroken. Together with the upperside markings this gives a strong presumption in favour of phlomidis. It just shows it's worth a second look sometimes, doesn't it!

Guy

[Paul Wetton]

Hi guys

Thanks for the help with the ID. Your quite correct G it's worth a closer look sometimes. I thought we hadn't seen this species at all.
Merry Christmas to all at UKButterflies.

[nik_s]

Hi Paul,

I have to say this still looks like S. orbifer to me. If you have a clear photo of the underside, the discal band (see Guy's post) is a certain identification feature. From the upperside, the hindwing discal spot is more squarish in phlomidis and it's part of an entire band (see my avatar ). The whitish costal region could be due to a reflection rather than actual colouring - fresh specimens have yellowish hairs in the basal region of the forewing that tend to reflect strongly under certain illumination. The overall feel (size, spots, etc) also speaks "orbifer".

Most revealing however is the plant on which the butterfly is ovipositing - it is Sanguisorba, the larval foodplant of Spialia orbifer. Spialia phlomidis larvae feed on Convolvulus.

Sorry to disappoint. Merry Christmas!

Nikolay

[nik_s]

An additional remark here: in the field, the Persian Skipper looks very distinctive. It is much larger, flies much faster, and is much more contrasted than the Orbed Red Underwing. These features are not at all obvious on a photograph, but it's one more reason to stick to your original id based on fresher memories.

Cheers,

[Padfield]

I hadn't registered that foodplant difference. I shall humbly bow out and leave it to those who have experience in that part of the world!

Guy