Calling Guy or Pete...

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:26 am

Trying to help out a friend who lives in France...she said it was brown with orange edges on top, and I'm thinking Lycaena tityrus - Sooty Copper...maybe subspecies subalpinus (Lafranchis page 108)(I'm waiting on an e-mail to let me know exactly where in France)

Martin.

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:22 am

Hi Martin - I think there are quite a few species that could be described as "Brown with orange edges on top". This could include Meadow Brown, for example

But a female Sooty Copper is definitely a possibility (pic below).

Cheers,

- Pete

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:51 am

Have just heard this was taken in Normandy between Aoencon and Le Mans...that pretty much rules out subalpinus

...but it sure looks like it in Lafranchis. I'm confused!

Martin.

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:59 am

Maybe I misunderstood. The photo in your post is of the actual critter?!

Cheers,

- Pete

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:25 pm

Yes Pete...the shot here is the insect in question...taken in Normandy. HTH.

Martin.

Post by **Padfield** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:54 pm

That is a male sooty copper, of the lowland variety. The upperside of this form is exactly as you describe - dark brown with orange around the edges. The females are very variable but generally resemble small coppers in overall appearance (not in detail).

I have subalpinus around me (as well as some forms with plenty of orange around the edges) and the true male of this type is all dark. The female varies from being quite bright orange to being very heavily suffused. However, the shape of the hindwing, as well as the colour, tells me this is a male. The way the anal angle is pushed out in a straight line so it is the furthest part from the body is characteristic - the female wing is more naturally rounded.

Guy

Post by **Padfield** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:00 pm

Here is a male sooty copper taken this year, showing that hindwing shape. You can see from Pete's picture that the female shape is quite different.

Guy

Bryan H · Post by **Bryan H** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:29 pm

Oui, merci, Monsieur Padfield!

Je suis un homme, lycaena tityrus (titter us not, I think you say in english?)

Mais, je ne suis pas certainement un "critter actual" comme ons dirent en anglais, n'est ce pas?

Pierre, you are naughty boy!

Post by **Padfield** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:51 am

Is there such a thing as a stand-up lepidopterist?

Bryan, you should have your own show!!

Guy

Bryan H · Post by **Bryan H** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:07 pm

padfield wrote:Is there such a thing as a stand-up lepidopterist?

Thank you, Guy. Nice concept, but I think it will never happen - for two reasons:

1. In one of Darwin's neglected papers, Lepidopterists can't be funny (and ornithologists never will be), he cites a particularly chronic form of stage-fright, apparently prevalent amongst lepidopterists: butterflies in the stomach.

2. It took me 24 hours to think of that!

Bryan

Post by **Padfield** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:12 pm

Was that the same paper where he described how the Swiss evolved without a sense of humour?

Well, I think he was wrong there...

(I spotted this insightful comment on the national brew while out brown hairstreak hunting today)

Guy

Sorry Martin - we've gone a bit off topic...

Bryan H · Post by **Bryan H** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:34 pm

Martin won't mind you going off topic for beer, cow's p**s or not!

Bryan