Nick Broomer
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Re: hideandseek
Continuing with Wood Whites.
Here is a picture of a pair of 2nd brood W.W.in courtship. But, are they actually courting? I say this because i have seen this behaviour on many
occasions with 1st and 2nd brood Wood Whites, but never have i seen them going on to mate.
Whenever i have witnessed this ritual with the male whipping the female with his proboscis
the male has always flown off without mating. When i have witnessed copulating Wood Whites
the female has always been at rest. A male has then, in passing seen her, and just swooped
down and mated. On one occasion i watched a female for over 3/4 hour, just sitting there in the
sun. Eventually a male came along and mated, no courtship of any kind. On another occasion i was
photographing a female that had just come to rest, within seconds a male had sought her out, and
mating commenced, again no courtship.
Here is another two pictures of a pair of 1st brood W.W. participating in this courtship/ritual I would welcome any input into this behaviour. [And if anyone has seen W.W.
going on to mate after this ritual/courtship]
Many thanks, Nick.
Here is a picture of a pair of 2nd brood W.W.in courtship. But, are they actually courting? I say this because i have seen this behaviour on many
occasions with 1st and 2nd brood Wood Whites, but never have i seen them going on to mate.
Whenever i have witnessed this ritual with the male whipping the female with his proboscis
the male has always flown off without mating. When i have witnessed copulating Wood Whites
the female has always been at rest. A male has then, in passing seen her, and just swooped
down and mated. On one occasion i watched a female for over 3/4 hour, just sitting there in the
sun. Eventually a male came along and mated, no courtship of any kind. On another occasion i was
photographing a female that had just come to rest, within seconds a male had sought her out, and
mating commenced, again no courtship.
Here is another two pictures of a pair of 1st brood W.W. participating in this courtship/ritual I would welcome any input into this behaviour. [And if anyone has seen W.W.
going on to mate after this ritual/courtship]
Many thanks, Nick.
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Re: hideandseek
My own observations reinforce yours, Nick. Here are a couple of shots from Botany Bay 6th June 2011: the first shows the typical ritual with male stroking female with his proboscis and the second, moments later, shows the female abandoned with her antennae still swept back in the same pose. She stayed like this a while. On the three or four times I've witnessed this ritual, the outcome was the same.
Dave
Dave
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Re: hideandseek
Likewise I watched that courtship ritual quite a few times last year but never saw the butterflies go on to mate.
Last edited by Susie on Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: hideandseek
Thankyou Dave for taking the time to answer, its very thoughtful of you, you`re a gentleman. Your observations reinforce my belief that maybe this behaviour is not infact an act of courtship. But a ritual with a totally different meaning. But what?
Susie its also very thoughtful of you for answering. I had already written this post when you posted, but it reinforces both Daves and my observations still further. Thankyou very much.
Maybe the males are infact handing out some form of retribution, the females having already had an earlier intimate liaison [mated] with another male, is being punished by a rejected and dejected male. Most unlikely, but not impossible. Do we really understand this lovely little butterfly.
Or is it a form of bonding [but not anything to do with courting] between males and females only found within this species. Will we ever know?
I hope that one day we will fully understand the Wood Whites, and this strange behaviour, and its purpose. Nature is a wonderful force and has thrown up many marvellous but strange acts that sometimes we can only stand-by and watch in awe, but never truly comprehend.
Dave and Susie thankyou both again,
Nick.
Susie its also very thoughtful of you for answering. I had already written this post when you posted, but it reinforces both Daves and my observations still further. Thankyou very much.
Maybe the males are infact handing out some form of retribution, the females having already had an earlier intimate liaison [mated] with another male, is being punished by a rejected and dejected male. Most unlikely, but not impossible. Do we really understand this lovely little butterfly.
Or is it a form of bonding [but not anything to do with courting] between males and females only found within this species. Will we ever know?
I hope that one day we will fully understand the Wood Whites, and this strange behaviour, and its purpose. Nature is a wonderful force and has thrown up many marvellous but strange acts that sometimes we can only stand-by and watch in awe, but never truly comprehend.
Dave and Susie thankyou both again,
Nick.
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- Colin Knight
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Re: hideandseek
These are very interesting observations and photos which prompted me to check Thomas & Lewington 2010. Thomas says "they begin the curious head-to-head courtship shown on page 49.” Lewington shows four stages of courtship: 1. Male sits opposite the female and uncoils proboscis, 2. male waves proboscis back and forth, 3. female bends abdomen towards male, 4. coupling occurs. Perhaps your observations have been of previously mated females who do not respond to the male’s attentions.
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- Paul Wetton
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Re: hideandseek
Could it be that the male senses a change in pheromones or other chemical make up of the female after she has already mated bu using his proboscis and therefore leaves the female to find an unmated female.
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- Mark Tutton
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Re: hideandseek
Hi All
interestingly Sue Clarke of Wessex Environmental gave a fascinating talk at the Hants BC annual members day on the 'Mysteries of the Wood White' She and Dave Green have made a very detailed study of the Wood White and it complicated genetics across europe. She also noted that in many hundreds of hours of study this behaviour rarely resulted in mating - so it would seem that it has some 'other' purpose. Still much to discover!
I have attached a link to the notes from the day.
http://www.hantsiow-butterflies.org.uk/ ... %20day.pdf
Mark T
interestingly Sue Clarke of Wessex Environmental gave a fascinating talk at the Hants BC annual members day on the 'Mysteries of the Wood White' She and Dave Green have made a very detailed study of the Wood White and it complicated genetics across europe. She also noted that in many hundreds of hours of study this behaviour rarely resulted in mating - so it would seem that it has some 'other' purpose. Still much to discover!
I have attached a link to the notes from the day.
http://www.hantsiow-butterflies.org.uk/ ... %20day.pdf
Mark T
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Re: hideandseek
Hi Colin, Paul and Mark T,
Thankyou all for taking the time to post. All input is greatly appreciated, not just by myself, but i`m sure by everyone on this forum.
Colin and Paul you are both probably right about the females having already mated, as i suggested in my earlier post, and it is nice to have my views reinforced.
Mark T you stated that this behaviour, [the male W.W. flicking his proboscis at the female] could have some other purpose. I wrote that the male whipping the female with his proboscis is a form of retribution, for an earlier intimate liaison with another male, [but the female having already mated seems to be true, if not the rest of my theory] that is my over active imagination running away with me. But would`nt it be wonderful had it actually been proved to be true
[maybe it will one day]
I have been studying the W.W. myself, especially the 2nd brood, [ when i can find the time] for the last two seasons.
I have found that the W.W.`s eyes can differ in colour, [shades of green, blue and purple]
Also that all the 2nd brood W.W. that i saw in 2010 were hairless around the top of the legs. But in 2011 i found that some W.W. did have hair around the
tops of the legs and some did`nt. Why, i have no explanation.
Thankyou all again,
all the best,
Nick.
Thankyou all for taking the time to post. All input is greatly appreciated, not just by myself, but i`m sure by everyone on this forum.
Colin and Paul you are both probably right about the females having already mated, as i suggested in my earlier post, and it is nice to have my views reinforced.
Mark T you stated that this behaviour, [the male W.W. flicking his proboscis at the female] could have some other purpose. I wrote that the male whipping the female with his proboscis is a form of retribution, for an earlier intimate liaison with another male, [but the female having already mated seems to be true, if not the rest of my theory] that is my over active imagination running away with me. But would`nt it be wonderful had it actually been proved to be true
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
I have been studying the W.W. myself, especially the 2nd brood, [ when i can find the time] for the last two seasons.
I have found that the W.W.`s eyes can differ in colour, [shades of green, blue and purple]
Also that all the 2nd brood W.W. that i saw in 2010 were hairless around the top of the legs. But in 2011 i found that some W.W. did have hair around the
tops of the legs and some did`nt. Why, i have no explanation.
Thankyou all again,
all the best,
Nick.
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Re: hideandseek
All the following photos of Marbled Whites were taken last year [2011] at Oaken Wood [C.W.] and shows a
vast variation in colour of the undersides of the females wings, which i had not previously
witnessed. The golden colour of this female`s wing is rather beautiful with the sun shining on it. I thought the female above was beautiful, but when i found this stunning specimen mating i
could not believe my eyes.With the sun also hitting her wings making her truly remarkable. This female, not as stunning as the two above, but still beautiful all the same.[ Not taken in the
sun] Again the wing colouration is different. At the other end of the scale, this female is quite dull in comparison.But this picture actually depicts
the correct colouration. [Or very close to it]This photo was also taken without the presence of the sun. This is yet another variation of the female Marbled White. Again no sun.
vast variation in colour of the undersides of the females wings, which i had not previously
witnessed. The golden colour of this female`s wing is rather beautiful with the sun shining on it. I thought the female above was beautiful, but when i found this stunning specimen mating i
could not believe my eyes.With the sun also hitting her wings making her truly remarkable. This female, not as stunning as the two above, but still beautiful all the same.[ Not taken in the
sun] Again the wing colouration is different. At the other end of the scale, this female is quite dull in comparison.But this picture actually depicts
the correct colouration. [Or very close to it]This photo was also taken without the presence of the sun. This is yet another variation of the female Marbled White. Again no sun.
Last edited by Nick Broomer on Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- Lee Hurrell
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Re: hideandseek
Some lovely Marbled White pictures there, Nick.
Cheers
Lee
Cheers
Lee
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To butterfly meadows, chalk downlands and leafy glades; to summers eternal.
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Re: hideandseek
Thanks Lee you`re a gent, really nice of you to say.Lee Hurrell wrote:Some lovely Marbled White pictures there, Nick.
Cheers
Lee
All the best,
Nick.
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Re: hideandseek
The following photos of the male Marbled White were all taken in the meadow on
the right before you enter Oaken Wood. [C.W.] With this lush green grass in the background this male really stands out. This individual was quite happy to pose for me while at roost. This male was sitting tight on a cold June afternoon. And this little fellow was just hanging out. I lied, this one i photographed on the side of the main track in Oaken Wood, in the late afternoon sun.
the right before you enter Oaken Wood. [C.W.] With this lush green grass in the background this male really stands out. This individual was quite happy to pose for me while at roost. This male was sitting tight on a cold June afternoon. And this little fellow was just hanging out. I lied, this one i photographed on the side of the main track in Oaken Wood, in the late afternoon sun.
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Re: hideandseek
These three pictures of Red Admirals were captured in Chiddingfold Wood.
Biabata.It was taken on 2.7.2011 on a very sunny morning at 8.24. This R.A. is another aberration, but it has a single white spot in the red band on
the left wing, and two white spots in the red band on the right wing. If this particular
aberration has a name, i don`t know what it is.It was taken on 9.7.2011 at 15.09pm.
This photo was taken on 19.6.2011 at 10.51am, and was the first R.A. i saw that year. This R.A. has a white spot in each of the red bands, and is apparently the aberration, Biabata.It was taken on 2.7.2011 on a very sunny morning at 8.24. This R.A. is another aberration, but it has a single white spot in the red band on
the left wing, and two white spots in the red band on the right wing. If this particular
aberration has a name, i don`t know what it is.It was taken on 9.7.2011 at 15.09pm.
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Re: hideandseek
when i took this picture, and the one above.
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Re: hideandseek
As you might of relized by now i spend a vast majority of my summer photographing the butterflies at Chiddingfold Wood.
But the wood does hold 32 species, and i have personally seen 35 species including both the S.P.B.F. and the P.B.F. [which
sadly no longer reside here] and the Clouded Yellow, including the form Helice on one occasion.
So here are a few more pictures of butterflies from C.W. This Gatekeeper was taken in the late afternoon sun. A male D.G.F. at rest in the morning. This Speckled Wood happily taking in the afternoon sun. I like this shot of the Common Blue sitting on this grass stem covered in an old spiders web. Meadow Brown on Clover. Female Ringlet taking a breather,Which i believe is an aberration. This Small Copper is a very poor example of the aberration, Caeruleopunctata,
where the blue spots are deformed, often finding more tiny blue spots on one
wing than the other. When there should actually be four blue spots on each wing.
In this case there are two spots on the right wing, and six on the left.
[This form of aberration Caeruleopunctata only occurs in the female as far as i know]. This female Green Hairstreak has just laid an egg on this Broom.
But the wood does hold 32 species, and i have personally seen 35 species including both the S.P.B.F. and the P.B.F. [which
sadly no longer reside here] and the Clouded Yellow, including the form Helice on one occasion.
So here are a few more pictures of butterflies from C.W. This Gatekeeper was taken in the late afternoon sun. A male D.G.F. at rest in the morning. This Speckled Wood happily taking in the afternoon sun. I like this shot of the Common Blue sitting on this grass stem covered in an old spiders web. Meadow Brown on Clover. Female Ringlet taking a breather,Which i believe is an aberration. This Small Copper is a very poor example of the aberration, Caeruleopunctata,
where the blue spots are deformed, often finding more tiny blue spots on one
wing than the other. When there should actually be four blue spots on each wing.
In this case there are two spots on the right wing, and six on the left.
[This form of aberration Caeruleopunctata only occurs in the female as far as i know]. This female Green Hairstreak has just laid an egg on this Broom.
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- Mark Colvin
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Re: hideandseek
Hi Nick,
Some more super pictures. I remember the hard work you put into getting the DGF pictures.
Keep them coming.
Kind regards. Mark
Some more super pictures. I remember the hard work you put into getting the DGF pictures.
Keep them coming.
Kind regards. Mark
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Re: hideandseek
Hi Mark,
Thankyou for your kind comments, really appreciated.
If i remember correctly Mark, on one occasion we were at C.W. and i went to see if the D.G.F. were about, i disappeared for two hours, after i told you i would be back in about 15 minutes. When i eventually got back you had gone. I will have to improve my time keeping, and my manners.
All the best,
Nick.
Thankyou for your kind comments, really appreciated.
If i remember correctly Mark, on one occasion we were at C.W. and i went to see if the D.G.F. were about, i disappeared for two hours, after i told you i would be back in about 15 minutes. When i eventually got back you had gone. I will have to improve my time keeping, and my manners.
![Embarassed :oops:](./images/smilies/icon_redface.gif)
All the best,
Nick.
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- Lee Hurrell
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Re: hideandseek
I love that Common Blue shot, Nick.
When I met you at Oaken Wood last year, I think you had seen a DGF that morning, or the day before.
Cheers
Lee
When I met you at Oaken Wood last year, I think you had seen a DGF that morning, or the day before.
Cheers
Lee
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Re: hideandseek
Hi Lee,
Glad you like the Common Blue picture. I`m always looking out for that unusual photo, something different, but as i`m sure you know they don`t always appear before you.
I did see a D.G.F. earlier that day, and managed to find their hideout later that same day. So i went back the following day hoping to get a photo, and five hours later i went home triumphant with the two pictures i sought. That was the 3rd July, we met on 2nd photographing the Purple King.
All the best,
Nick.
Glad you like the Common Blue picture. I`m always looking out for that unusual photo, something different, but as i`m sure you know they don`t always appear before you.
I did see a D.G.F. earlier that day, and managed to find their hideout later that same day. So i went back the following day hoping to get a photo, and five hours later i went home triumphant with the two pictures i sought. That was the 3rd July, we met on 2nd photographing the Purple King.
All the best,
Nick.
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Re: hideandseek
Continuing with the butterflies of Chiddingfold Wood, 2011.
Here are a few photos of butterflies that C.W. is more well known for, and a newcomer. This photo of a Purple Emperor was taken on 2nd July. I found this individual at about
9.30am, and was soon joined by fellow butterfly enthusiasts, [Lee Hurrell amongst them]. This male was found futher up the track about an hour later. This Purple Emperor was my first of 2011, taken on 28. june. The D.G.F. is a newcomer to C.W. for me,and i was informed by a lady that it had
not been seen for about 20 years at this location. The picture was taken on 3rd july. The 2nd brood Wood Whites were really unpredictable this year. The first one seen
on the 15 June, nearly three weeks early, but the majority of the 2nd brood W.W.s
emerged the last week of July, which is most unusual. They normally start to emerge
in numbers about the 4th July.This picture was taken on 10.July. This picture of a fairly new male was taken on 31st July. On a slow half hour walk
on 31st. starting from Oaken Wood [C.W.] and ending at the triangle i counted over 30
individuals, which is very good for the 2nd brood.If you look at the male W.W.s in the
two photos, their eyes are a different colour. Also the W.W.s wings In the second picture
are much cleaner than that of the male in the first picture.
Here are a few photos of butterflies that C.W. is more well known for, and a newcomer. This photo of a Purple Emperor was taken on 2nd July. I found this individual at about
9.30am, and was soon joined by fellow butterfly enthusiasts, [Lee Hurrell amongst them]. This male was found futher up the track about an hour later. This Purple Emperor was my first of 2011, taken on 28. june. The D.G.F. is a newcomer to C.W. for me,and i was informed by a lady that it had
not been seen for about 20 years at this location. The picture was taken on 3rd july. The 2nd brood Wood Whites were really unpredictable this year. The first one seen
on the 15 June, nearly three weeks early, but the majority of the 2nd brood W.W.s
emerged the last week of July, which is most unusual. They normally start to emerge
in numbers about the 4th July.This picture was taken on 10.July. This picture of a fairly new male was taken on 31st July. On a slow half hour walk
on 31st. starting from Oaken Wood [C.W.] and ending at the triangle i counted over 30
individuals, which is very good for the 2nd brood.If you look at the male W.W.s in the
two photos, their eyes are a different colour. Also the W.W.s wings In the second picture
are much cleaner than that of the male in the first picture.
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