Tics

[Gibster]

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about Tics going for warm blooded creatures.

Not necessarily. See Philzoid's pic from a few weeks ago. Check it here viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5512 And my old biology teacher had one that she brought in (still on her leg!) to show us. And she was DEFINITELY cold-blooded

Surely pet dogs/cats must be riddled with Lyme's??? I wonder if vets are massively overlooking/misdiagnosing the disease in domestic animals?

Gibster.

[Philzoid]

This is another one of my lizard pics taken at Bentley Wood eastern clearing on the 1st of May this year. Check out the area behind the front leg

checking lizards for ticks ... almost as good as counting eyespots on Gatekeepers

Surely pet dogs/cats must be riddled with Lyme's??? I wonder if vets are massively overlooking/misdiagnosing the disease in domestic animals?

With deer numbers on the increase in the UK and more and more people taking their dogs into country places the resevoir for tick borne diseases is surely going to increase Having never encountered a tick until this year you may be interested to know that my doctor has put me on a course of antibiotics because the site of my first ever tick bite has flared up again, 6 weeks after 'disappearing'.

You cannot take these things lightly.

[Paul Wetton]

Agreed Seth

As I think I mentioned. I reckon they go for movement i.e. anything that passes their particular perching point is fair game, even cold blooded Biology Teachers.

[Susie]

Well I'm cold blooded too so it can't be true.

Roger, where were you when I needed a tick buddy?

I've been reading about tick bites and developing an allegy to red meat. You be careful, Piers, that sounds really nasty!

I also keep reading about "Lyme prevalent areas" but I can't find a map of where these are.

[Wurzel]

I have recently been blooded while on holiday at Thistledown Farm I took my wifes advice and went to an A and E to get it removed and they had some v shaped twisler stick. I was all for ripping the little bugger out myself but the nurse told me that it was good that I didn't as the mouth parts can remain in the skin and cause infection. She also said that Lymes disease is on the increase and that I was to look out for flu like symptoms and a bullseye rash in the next 30 days.
It was actually really cool to watch it's legs wriggling away as it's abdomen started to swell - kind of puts us humans in our place!

Have a goodun

Wurzel

[Susie]

Is there a particuarl insect repellent people on here recommend to keep ticks at bay or are they very much of a muchness?

[Wurzel]

I spent 3 hours with my wife and daughters in A&E on Saturday night as I discovered a Tick on my wife. The nurse that removed it said that there is nothing that works and the only thing to do is keep checking and tuck your trousers into your ankles... but I'm not taking this piece of advice as I can't afford to look any more freaky than I already do when out butterflying!

Have a goodun
Wurzel

[David M]

Is there a particuarl insect repellent people on here recommend to keep ticks at bay or are they very much of a muchness?

After my savaging at Haugh Wood on 22 April (albeit by biting flies rather than ticks), I invested in a product called Jungle Formula Factor 4 insect repellant (50% DEET).

I'm pleased to say nothing has bitten me since.

[P.J.Underwood]

Sorry,Gibster,vets are very well aware of Lymes disease and its effects in animals.We generally advise prophylactic treatment,such as the use of frontline spray to prevent them in the tick season.The problem is that doctors are not as clued up as we are.As far as I am aware,the antiobiotic of choice is oxytetracycline.I am not aware that anything else would work.
P.J.U.

[Paul Wetton]

DEET is a good effective insecticide against tics. It just kills them out right. You do need to cover your clothing in it though. I use 50% DEET which is normally available from outdoor shops. It's quite toxic so check for allergy first and don't get it on camera and bins as it will dissolve the rubber and plastic parts due to the solvents required to dissolve it.

I used this stuff in dorset a couple of years ago when tics were crawling up my trousers in the hundreds. They soon died and could be brushed off.

Please also look like a prune and tuck your trousers in your socks and get your tic buddy to check you over every time you go out. Get some tic tweezers yourselves and remove them.

Use preventative measures, be vigilant in checking and remove as soon as you find one. Lyme disease normally only gets into the skin if the tic has been on board for at least 48 hours so quick removal is key.

Don't worry too much if you leave a bit in. I reckon a minor skin infection is better than Lyme disease. This can affect your brain and central nervous system if undetected for some time.

[Gibster]

Sorry,Gibster,vets are very well aware of Lymes disease and its effects in animals.We generally advise prophylactic treatment,such as the use of frontline spray to prevent them in the tick season.

That's good news.

The problem is that doctors are not as clued up as we are.As far as I am aware,the antiobiotic of choice is oxytetracycline.I am not aware that anything else would work.

But that's not such good news.

Thanks for responding

Gibster.

[MikeOxon]

Is there a particuarl insect repellent people on here recommend to keep ticks at bay or are they very much of a muchness?

I agree with others about DEET but it is corrosive stuff, if it gets near cameras, sunglasses etc. Might not be too good for the 'trademark' ballgown and jewellery, either!

It's wise to think about where you go on a site - thrashing about in the bracken is not a good idea. I stayed 'clean' at Bentley Wood, while my brother-in-law collected over a dozen from a brief sally into the bracken.

Mike

[Trev Sawyer]

Hi P.J.U.
A friend was talking about "Frontline" the other day and said that one drop applied to a dog's neck could protect them from ticks etc. for 2 or 3 months... Must be pretty potent stuff - what the hell is in it? - but makes me wonder why humans could not be protected (during the tick season) by something similar, or is it hideously toxic to humans? If it is, makes you wonder what it does to the dog!

Also, someone I know got the classical "Bull's Eye rash" sign of Lyme's a few years back after a trip to Thetford Forest, but had fortunately kept the offending tick (in a plastic tube) after he found it whilst having a shower (no, the guy not the tick ). We looked at it under the microscope and realised that it was the offending species and he was successfully treated with antibiotics. The forum threads on ticks on this site will hopefully mean that more people are aware of what to look out for. Our family certainly have always done a quick "tick check" as soon as we get home after a trip out to a known tick area since - I think that's a wise precaution.

Trev

[MikeOxon]

The active ingredient in 'Frontline' is fipronil. According to Wikipedia:

"fipronil has been classified as a Group C (possible human) carcinogen based on an increase in thyroid follicular cell tumors in both sexes of the rat. Furthermore, fipronil is considered slightly irritating to the skin, while moderately irritating to the eyes in both humans and animals, and there is no evidence suggesting it may cause birth defects.

Two Top Spot products were determined by the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation to pose no significant exposure risks to workers applying the product. However, concerns were raised about human exposure to Frontline spray treatment in 1996, leading to a denial of registration for the spray product. Commercial pet groomers and veterinarians were considered to be at risk from chronic exposure via inhalation and dermal absorption during the application of the spray, assuming they may have to treat up to 20 large dogs per day.[8] Fipronil is not volatile, so there is little likelihood of humans being exposed to this compound in the air."

Mike

[P.J.Underwood]

Oh dear,I have been using fipronil since it arrived,and before that Nuvan Top-an organophosphorus.I always sprayed the animals for the clients and my nurses assisted.At the last count I was still alive and well!
P.J.U.

[Susie]

It's wise to think about where you go on a site - thrashing about in the bracken is not a good idea.

Indeed. Thrashing about in the bracken plays havoc with the slinky numbers too so I tend to leave them at home.

Thanks to Wurzel, PJ Underwood, David, Paul, Mike, Trev, and El Geebsta for all your replies.

I, too, have some jungle formula 50% Deet spray now so hopefully that'll keep the little critters at bay.

A friend recently developed the bulls eye ring mark on her leg and her leg swelled and she felt fluey. She has no recollection of being bitten by a tick (and isn't into wildlife but lives in a lovely house with a large garden bordered by woodland and so I expect deer are frequently visitors to her land) but the doctor said that a tick or spider bite was the most likely cause. She is now on antibiotics so hopefully will make a full recovery.

Thanks for your advice,

Susie

[MikeOxon]

Oh dear,I have been using fipronil since it arrived

I worked with 'toxic' substances most of my life, too! We should remember that water is lethal, by drowning, so everything has to be put in perspective. I suspect that, in the current context, the importance is that DEET is fast acting while fipronil has a long-term cumulative effect. I think also (though it's not my field) that DEET is toxic to some animals.

May you continue well for a long time PJU!

Mike

[P.J.Underwood]

I wouldn't want anyone to stop using fipronil on their animals or to stop drinking water,but I feel there is an important side to these exchanges.Throughout time the Arthropods have developed the ability to live off other species.They do this mostly by sucking blood through well developed mouthpieces.In doing this they often transmit disease,either from an organism that has developed within,or physically by contamination on the outside of ,say,the proboscis.We have many examples of this worldwide-malaria,sleeping sickness,bubonic plague-to name a few.In this country we have many diseases spread by ticks-louping ill,lyme disease, readily come to mind.As vets we are well versed in all this.That is why most people use fipronil on domestic animals or the ivermectins on farm animals.These are broad spectrum and knock out most other arthropods as well.Fipronil is usually administered to cats and dogs either as a drop on the skin behind the neck-where it moves over the whole body in the fat layer-or as a spray and is rubbed in the coat wearing a plastic glove.I prefer using the spray as the action against ticks can last up to three months whereas with the drop it is only one month.It is NOT to be used on human skin!
But,examining this further,I am sure that these arthropods could transmit viral diseases ,such as aids,hepatitis B etc,just by hopping from one person to another,and having a nice little feed.So please treat the subject of ticks seriously-you don't know where they have been!
P.J.U.

[MikeOxon]

Agreed. Tick-borne diseases are serious. I do hope my comment about water did not sound flippant in this serious context.

We must also, always consider the balance of risks whenever we use technology to control something. We almost eliminated malaria with DDT but this substance was then totally banned, as a result of indicriminate and often inappropriate use. Many people now consider that DDT should have a place in malaria control, provided it is controlled appropriately. This is a case of achieving an appropriate balance of risk.

May I re-iterate - do not treat ticks lightly - deter them and, if that fails, remove them as quickly as possible. If in any doubt, seek medical attention. (I am not a medic or vet but I do l know that many people hope 'it will go away' - it won't!)

Mike

[Piers]

Not all 'Jungle Formula' contains DEET, the 'Extra Strength Pump Spray' contains IR3535, which is the active ingredient in Avon's famous 'Skin So Soft' lotion which was accidentally discovered to contain an insect 'confusant'.

IR3535 has an unblemished safety record, and the average test subject who applies IR3535 in either 10% lotion or 20% pump spray can remain "invisible" to ticks for up to 11 hours.

Piers.