Prickly Pyrgus

[Reverdin]

Here are three from Cormet de Roseland, ID issues... Large Grizzled, Dusky, Oberthur's, I'm perplexed! ( no suprise there ) Roger or Guy.. please help me again - Oh, and sorry - no undersides
1/

? Oberthur's

2/

?Dusky Grizzled

3/

?Olive

[Roger Gibbons]

As no-one has yet ventured to guess, as I am briefly back in the UK I will offer my instinctive IDs (i.e. without detailed analysis as no reference books available), even though ID on upperside alone is often not possible.

9777: very worn, but very likely male armoricanus.
9782: female serratulae, based largely on the lack of markings especially on the lower half of the forewing, and the very weakly marked hindwing.
9826: probably a female alveus, possibly serratulae but maybe too heavily marked for female serratulae, I feel. Probably easier to ID in the field as alveus is (usually, but not always) noticeably larger than serratulae.

I have started to look into this complex area, and will continue when I am back in the UK in October, armed with dozens of Pyrgus photos where I have both upper and undersides of the same individual. If you are interested:
http://www.butterfliesoffrance.com/Pyrg ... cation.htm
My wife can slip into a coma on just hearing the word Pyrgus…

[Reverdin]

Hi Roger,

many, many thanks for your very valued opinion, that's very helpful, especially pleased you feel there is serratulae there.

[Reverdin]

I've found another, ? malvae, from high up overlooking a glacial lake in Ch on 8th July.. no other shots I'm afraid.. but is it malvae??

unknown pyrgus

[Padfield]

Hi Rev - not deliberately avoiding this one, I just didn't see it!

Funnily, my immediate intuitions on the second two were just the opposite of Roger's! There's no point in fighting the case without underside pictures, but 2 looks like classic alveus and 3 classic serratulae. In my experience in Switzerland, where serratulae is very common, this is not even a particularly strongly marked individual and the markings are perfect.

Species like this vary hugely across their range, and I'm not sure where Cormet de Roseland is, but in Switzerland I wouldn't have hesitated to identify them in this order, with a large measure of uncertainty built in, obviously, as the pics are ups only. I've often disagreed with Roger about serratulae and it may be that those in the south are very different from those in the Alps.

The last one I will hold back on as it needs a little study!

Guy

PS - female carlinae can be almost completely unmarked, so I couldn't rule that out for your first butterfly.

[Roger Gibbons]

#2 could well be female carlinae, on reflection. Here is one that I am almost 100% certain is carlinae.

http://www.butterfliesoffrance.com/html ... -_carlinae_

I did have my doubts about #3 mainly because the colouring suggested female serratulae, but the cell spot seemed too large. I think (female) alveus can sometimes have a yellowish flush?

#4 is not clear but the external concavity might suggest our old friend carlinae.

[Reverdin]

Thanks again, carlinae woulg be very pleasing... sorry not to be able to show any undersides. I am, as everin awe of, and endebted to your voices of experience.