Pyrgus carthami or P. serratulae?

[traplican]

Today I have taken a skipper and I am not sure if it is P. cartami or P. serratulae. Photos are here and further.

Can you help me with the identification, please?

[Padfield]

I just wrote a reply saying it couldn't be carthami, but the more I study it the more I think it actually is this! I think it is very faded and worn and the underside shot in particular doesn't show the edge of the wing clearly (the white scaling might be obscured by the brown colour showing through from the upperside).

I've been through all my serratulae pictures and none of them show the upperside colour (the grey hairs) or the prominent white on the hindwing that your butterfly shows.

In the field, carthami is conspicuously big - clearly in a different league from 'normal' Pyrgus skippers and easily separable in flight. On the other hand, serratulae is quite normal, being roughly the same size as armoricanus or onopordi and just a little bigger than malvae.

I'd really like to hear someone else's opinion, but in the end, against my original thought, I go for carthami.

Here is a male carthami trampling on serratulae and malvae!! The apparent difference in size in this picture is not an illusion - it really is a big butterfly!



Guy

[traplican]

Thank you Guy, I have corrected the legend to "Pyrgus carthami".

It was difficult to snap the underside because the skippers turned the upperside against the sun - so I have succeeded in snapping underside but only in one photo and the wings are shone through.

[traplican]

Jiří Beneš has re-determined it to P. serratulae and asked me reference to my last year photos of "P. carthami" for revision ...

[Padfield]

That's very interesting. As I mentioned, I had at first ruled out carthami but backtracked because after going through all my pictures of serratulae I couldn't find a single one with such prominent markings or with so much grey hair.

Then yesterday I photographed this individual, which I know is serratulae, and was wondering whether to reopen this question!!



I carry a foldable, pocket net at all times and with important Pyrgus individuals I whip it out and take some photos in the plastic box for confident ID. Pyrgus never mind this at all, and often continue to sit in the box, sunning, even after I've opened it to let them fly away!



Guy

[traplican]

I cancel all excl. Pyrgus armoricanus. Mr. Beneš has re-evaluated these photos as undeterminable incl. last-year P. carthami .

I have returned to the same place on 24th May and all my Pyrgi excl. P. malvae are P. armoricanus:
http://traplican.rajce.idnes.cz/Motyli_2011-05-24/