South Cevennes Trip, France, April 2011

[Lee Hurrell]

Lovely report Michael, really enjoyed reading it

All the best,

Lee

[Vince Massimo]

Great report and photos Michael.

I am not an expert on moths, but the nearest I can get to yours is a faded Lunar Double-Stripe (Minucia lunaris). There is a photo of one on the Sussex Branch website (a rare overseas visitor).

Vince

[Michaeljf]

Hi Vince / Lee,
thanks to both of you. I'll have a look later at pictures of the Lunar Double-Stripe moth. They were quite big and quite common during our trip, as long as you were in the right spot.

I think we saw almost 40 species of butterfly in one week, mostly around a small area covered by 2/3 small hamlets. Not as good as the LOTSWII trip but I have to be grateful for small mercies!

Also - quite luckily - when we visited the area for a week in Summer 2008 I did see other highlights such as the Purple Emperor, Dark Green Fritillary, High Brown Fritillary, Ilex Hairstreak, Knapweed Fritillary, Marbled Fritillary, Southern Admiral and lots more Hummingbird Hawkmoths amongst others. I'm sure there's plenty more species around the area, but like our own 'home patch', you have to spend time in an area before you really get to know it. And sometimes this takes years!

Michael

[Michaeljf]

Here are a couple for ID's, some from both my spring visit this year and July visit in 2008. Quality of the photos is variable


At the time I had this as a slightly wrinkly Adonis Blue male.


Here's the underside view of the same Blue, and the black spots look too large for an Adonis, though it may just be an aberration.


Here's an image from July 2008. I had this down originally as a Knapweed Frit, but it could be a Provincal Frit. Any opinions?


From around the same / time /day as the image above, so this may be the underwing of the same butterfly.


This one is fairly easy - again from July 2008 - Marbled Fritillaries would gather first thing in the garden.


Underside shot of the Marbled Fritillary.


In July there were also quite a few Hairstreaks. I'm not sure if this was an Ilex or False ilex Hairstreak.


This is another Hairstreak photo, from Thyme plants if I remember correctly. Same Hairstreak species as above or is this one definitely Ilex?


An unidentified Fritillary caterpillar from July. The original picture wasn't great so I had to fiddle to get a reasonable one to upload.


From July again - I have this down as a Black Satyr. There were plenty of these and Graylings.


Pale Clouded Yellow or Bergers Clouded Yellow? Again from July - again seen in the Garden of our Gite.


One of the photos that I was very happy with in 2008. This Scarce Swallowtail looks newly emerged and was seen at the Gorge du Gardon in Gard.

[Padfield]

Here are the Swiss votes:

The blue is definitely Adonis.
The first fritillary is a female Provençal (I'm not 100% on that, because heath frit is so variable, but it looks very good for Provençal to me)
Then marbled frillary, as you say.
The first hairstreak is false ilex. The second has some ambiguous features - I'll consider that one carefully.
I suspect the caterpillar is Provençal. Is that a species of toadflax it is on?
Black satyr (though again, I wouldn't be 100% on that as I've never seen black satyr)
Berger's, with some confidence.

I'll get thinking about the second hairstreak...

Guy

[Padfield]

I've thought, and I think it's a very fresh, dark, false ilex hairstreak. I'd like a second opinion, though.

Guy

[Michaeljf]

Hi Guy,
I can't really comment because in Tom Tolman's 'Field guide Butterflies: Britain and Europe' book (even with Richard Lewington's illustrations) False Ilex and Ilex look pretty much the same to me! In Tolman's other book I use (Oxford Natural History Photographic guide to Butterflies of Britain & Europe) it looks more like the Ilex than the False Ilex, especially in the first photo, where the red hindwing marks look like they have blacker margins (almost like a black spot on the red mark / black border next to the tail on the first photo). Below is another picture, which is the same butterfly. Unfortunately I don't think it helps much. When I took these shots the weather was also very hot which led to the butterflies being very active and also explains the somewhat 'glossy' reflective nature of the wings. Thanks very much for the other ID's.
Michael

[Padfield]

It still does look very dark - and generally has the feel of ilex. I'll describe the relevant features, and perhaps Roger, or someone who knows the southern French forms better, can comment on which ones are most pertinent here!

In favour of ilex:
The dark ground colour.
The conspicuous dark edging to the orange lunules.
The inner edging of pale scales to the lunules.

In favour of false ilex:
The colour of the lunules, which distinctly have a deep reddish tinge in your pictures.
The more uniform (and rather small) size of the lunules - ilex typically reduces in size as you go up the wing.
The rapid fading out of the marginal white line.
The flatness of all the hairstreak lines (typically more jagged, or v-shaped in ilex).
The tendency of the forewing hairstreak to approach the outer edge, or at least run parallel to it (typically moves away from the outer edge in ilex).

For me, most disconcerting is the colour, which I strongly associate with ilex.

Roger?

Guy

[Padfield]

I've just been looking at the Satyrium volume of the Guide to the Butterflies of the Palearctic Region, and it considers the ground colour diagnostic. It indicates that the section of the 'hairstreak' below the tail on the hindwing is flat in false ilex (as in your first picture) and 'angled' in ilex (this is what I meant by 'jagged'). But the angle is not nearly so great in many pictures as in typical Swiss specimens and yours is distinctly angled, even if not v-shaped.

SO, on the whole, I've changed my mind. I incline towards ilex, like you.

My very first impression was in fact ilex, because of the overall feel, but the reddish lunules and the flat lines seduced me!

Guy

[Gibster]

Guy Holmes in action...good to see how the real experts do it!

[Roger Gibbons]

I will take the page back and have a look. Meanwhile, some clues here maybe:
http://www.butterfliesoffrance.com/html ... esculi.htm

[Michaeljf]

I'm sorry that it's probably the poor quality of the photos that don't help (particularly for the ID on the 2nd & 3rd image - the same Hairstreak on Thyme flowers). At least I can excuse myself by saying that I think I've improved my butterfly photography (in most circumstances) since 2008 when those images were taken. The thought of returning for summer (July) species is part of the reason I want to return to Tourgueille / Cevennes area in the Summer - even though I can't afford to do that this year. I'm definitely off to Bulgaria for my summer holiday! Then South Africa for next spring - lots of saving the pennies... .

Thanks both for your help - I'm not sure any more analysing will be more conclusive because of the state of the photos. It's very interesting to see Roger's photos in comparison.

Michael

[Roger Gibbons]

The views of the Var, Provence, jury:

The fritillary looks good for Provencal Fritillary (Mellicta dejone). The colour contrast between the submarginal band and the adjacent bands is indicative of female dejone. Heath Fritillary (Mellicta athalia) is as Guy says hugely variable but tends be a stronger red colour in these parts, rather than orange, and without the contrast. Knapweed Fritillary (Melitaea phoebe) is the most likely alternative, as you say Michael, although there are well documented differences. I had hoped that LOTSW II would see dejone in the Alpes-Maritimes, but atrocious weather and a bulldozer going down the track made this rather unlikely.

I agree with Guy about the hairstreaks. The first is for me 100% False Ilex Hairstreak (Satyrium esculi) and the second equally 100% Ilex Hairstreak (Satyrium ilicis). I just saw my first ilicis today, just the start of the mass Satyrium emergence down here. You might remember when you first saw esculi down here, Guy, when we could count them in hundreds if not thousands. I agree that Tolman/Lewington is not much use here, untypically; I think they are much more different than their illustrations suggest. The black edging of the ilicis discal line is enough for me, plus the shape and colour of the lunules.

The satyr could well be Black Satyr (Satyrus actaea) but it could also be Great Sooty Satyr (Satyrus ferula) which are very variable, often very dark like this and much more common than actaea (at least in this part of the world). The unh post discal line is usually indicative (actaea is quite jagged) so maybe you could lighten it and re-post.

Roger

[Michaeljf]

Hi Roger,
I was going to post a picture last night but then I couldn't get onto this site and I didn't realise it was just my computer until later..
Here's the earlier (Black Satyr?) image cropped a little but without resizing - and slightly lightened. I don't know if this helps. Thank you for the help with the other ID's .
Michael

[Roger Gibbons]

discal line looks sufficiently jagged for actaea, for me.

Roger

[Padfield]

As in my earlier post, I instinctively feel actaea, but with no real conviction, and with less knowing that ferula is common there. In the Pyrenees, ferula has quite a strong, pale discal band, but browsing my photos from Switzerland I find several individuals with a weak band and one or two with almost none at all:



For comparison, here is a male from the Pyrenees:



With that kind of variability in the undersides hesitation is natural!!

If I were to have seen the individual in Michael's photo in the flesh I would certainly have suspected actaea and examined it in the hand, where the males are easy (actaea has an androconial patch and ferula doesn't).

Guy