Plans for next year?

[Susie]

TBH I don't think there's any interest.

[Paul]

If anyone is interested, I've just put a suggestion on the Species "Mountain Ringlet" topic.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4889

[Gibster]

Hi all, just to drag this topic back into life....

Several members were making plans for connecting with 'target' species this year. I have rather a lot of targets for this season and was wondering if somebody wiser than myself could advise me accordingly regards this year's "earlier than normal" flight periods. I'd hate to be at the 'right' place at the 'right' time and find I've already missed the action by a couple of weeks

This is my planned itinerary (fine-tuned in the depths of winter).

21 - 24th May...trip to Ireland in search of Real's Wood White and the endemic subspecies of Wood White, Orange-tip, Green-veined White, Brimstone, Dingy Skipper, Small Copper, Common Blue and Marsh Fritillary f. hibernica.

27th May...Isle of Wight for Glanville Fritillary

late June...Cumbria for Mountain Ringlet mnemon. Then up into Scotland for Mountain Ringlet scotica, Small Heath rhoumensis and Large Heath polydama.

2nd - 4th July...Ireland again for Graylings clarensis and hibernica plus Meadow Brown iernes. This could be delayed until 23rd to 25th July.

9th - 11th July...Isles of Scilly for Meadow Brown cassiteridum. (Going to a birthday bash on 10th, so these dates won't be altered)

Essentially it's a hitlist of the stuff we missed last year on our Butterfly Blitz 2010 attempt. Plus Ireland. If any Oracles are reading this I'd really appreciate your thoughts on whether or not I need to advance my dates in order to (hopefully) photograph ALL target species/subspecies. I'm most worried about missing the Mountain Ringlets (new species!), Irish Orange-tip and Small Heath rhoumensis (really must remember to get off at the right island this year - DOH!!!) My boss is (fairly) flexible regards holiday dates, but Sam's bosses will need firm dates in advance.

Many thanks in advance,

Gibster.

[Gibster]

If any Oracles are reading this I'd really appreciate your thoughts on whether or not I need to advance my dates in order to (hopefully) photograph ALL target species/subspecies.

OK, so I guess the Oracles are all off on their Easter Hols.

Any other takers? Sam's gonna have to start hinting at dates pretty soon (obviously we appreciate that the British weather is changeable and detailed advance forecasting is impossible beyond a few days.) My particular quandary is whether to bring the Cumbria/Scotland trip forward, and if so - by how much? How early could Mountain Ringlets be expected to start emerging if the current warm weather holds? And would Rhum's notoriously wet weather mean that Small Heath rhoumensis wouldn't be especially early at all?

And will the 3rd week of May be too late for Irish Orange-tips? Dave??? Anybody??? I'd hate to only see them as larva!

Again, thanks in advance for any advice!

Gibster.

[Neil Hulme]

Hi Gibster,
I think your question is too difficult for anyone to answer. Local emergence dates will depend on local weather patterns and your targets are spread all over the UK. I think people tend to keep a very close eye on their local weather and local phenological calendars but, for instance, I couldn't tell you how much sunshine and warmth that Cumbria has experienced this spring. As a 'rule of thumb' things are 10 days to 2 weeks ahead of last year, but I would shy away from making recommendations too far from the Sussex downs. If you come to Sussex for anything just drop me a line.
Neil

[Gibster]

Hi Neil,

that's a very kind offer, thankyou. I'll gauge things roughly a fortnight early then.

I guess I'm just getting in a bit of a flap because neither Sam nor myself can afford (time/money-wise) to keep trolling back and forth up and down the length of Britain until we 'get it right' and, apart from sending in records, it isn't a particularly useful or environmentally friendly way of seeing stuff.

I fell into the 'obsession' trap a few years ago when twitching rare birds, becoming hugely disappointed or irrationally annoyed when I did miss a bird. Which obviously happens. So, although I'm keen to see EVERYTHING (heck, I just can't switch off the twitching element of my genetic make-up ) I'm realistic enough to know that we'll struggle somewhere along the way. I'm just trying to minimise the chances of missing our target species/subspecies, whilst at the same time generate a bit of interest regards joint ventures with other UKB members.

To my knowledge, we've only knowingly met three UKB members whilst out and about. (Pete, could you knock up some name badges please?)

Cheers,

Gibster.

[Lawts]

Gibster, I feel your pain. I still need 15 lifers - I'm not at the stage of chasing sub-species like you, but trying to plan 2011 is a nightmare. Everyone keeps saying things are earlier, but for example I went to Ketton Quarries for Grizzled Skipper, based on the c. two weeks early rule, and had no luck at all. I ended up dipping Savi's Warbler which I need for Yorkshire in the process.

Then there's the differing site info. to contend with - you look at the UK Butterfly Monitoring Scheme for 2010, and all the top sites for various species don't agree with what this site says - e.g. Wood White - this site recommends Oaken Wood as a five star - no mention of this at UKBMS. In contrast, Haugh Wood South had massive numbers last year - no mention on this site.

The thing is as well you can do all your planning, and it might be raining when you go. This is my conundrum now - I could sort Grizzled and the Duke tomorrow with a drive to the Winchester area, but do I save myself some money and hold my nerve - Grizzled at Ketton in a week or so, and the Duke just 30 miles from home? , no substitue for points on the board - I really ought to do the long drive - the weather might turn for my nearer sites. The dates of sightings on UKBMS don't seem to accord with the normal expected flight times either.

I wish I could help. All I can do is empathise.

Whether it's lack of butterfly enthusiasts, but it really needs an equivalent of Birdguides - the sightings page is so hit and miss, and the local groups are equally hit and miss - the one I need for Leicestershire doesn't put any info. out.

Good luck anyway. I hope they don't start splitting the sub-species in the same way birding has gone. Unless they do, I don't think I'll be chasing them.

My 2011 plan is on the "Field Trips & Events" page - appreciate thoughts help with mine as well from anyone.

[Pete Eeles]

In contrast, Haugh Wood South had massive numbers last year - no mention on this site.

UKB relies on the members to nominate sites (so long as they're not sensitive!). As it happens, Haugh Wood has just been contributed!

Whether it's lack of butterfly enthusiasts, but it really needs an equivalent of Birdguides.

I guess there aren't enough butterfly twitchers to warrant such a thing.

[rant]On a related note, I "twitched" (saw) all of the British species in 2006 (bar Mountain Ringlet thanks to a lorry fire on the M6) and photographed the lot to boot. It was the least enjoyable year of butterflying I've ever had. I've decided that I just don't understand twitching or its attraction - I saw lots and learned little.[/rant]

Cheers,

- Pete

[Trev Sawyer]

Hi Lawts,
It can indeed be very frustrating to visit a venue to see a species and find you are too early/late, but that is the very nature of Nature Nothing is totally predictable and I for one would not want it to be. If you got everything you wanted to see the first time you went to see it, you would soon get awfully bored and drift off to the next "challenge". I have certainly seen a much greater percentage of British butterflies than I would ever have seen without this site and it reignited an interest which had been in diapause since my days as a larva (sorry, I mean child) No website is perfect, but I would venture to suggest that Pete and the gang have one as close to that definition as you are ever likely to get. The site itself is also constantly evolving (with information posted by its members), so a greater understanding of each species, where they can be found and their likely flight dates will be gleaned over time. All the clues are there... we just have to try to fit them all together and be lucky. Good luck with your future ticks.

Trev

PS: Judging by a posting elsewhere on this site, Grizzled Skippers were out at Ketton Quarry yesterday

[Padfield]

As a schoolboy, I once went camping near Kingussie, in Scotland, with a friend. High in the mountains one foggy day, we were watching a rather tame ptarmigan when a lunatic in an anorak launched himself out of the gloom, straight at the ptarmigan. The bird watched him, waited for him to be airborne, then zoomed off unscathed, mouthing avian obscenities. When we asked him, 'What the hell did you do that for?', he replied, 'I need ptarmigan on my touch list'. The man was a nutter.

Twitchers, eh!

Guy

[David M]

e.g. Wood White - this site recommends Oaken Wood as a five star - no mention of this at UKBMS. In contrast, Haugh Wood South had massive numbers last year - no mention on this site.

I visited Haugh Wood yesterday and have put in a request for the site to appear on UKB. There were several Wood Whites as well as impressive numbers of Pearl Bordered Fritillaries.

I have posted this on the 'April Sightings' thread and will upload some photos very soon.

[Jack Harrison]

I was the one who asked and having seen the reports, I am on my way there on Tuesday staying overnight Tuesday and Wednesday so a full day available Wednesday to explore Haugh Wood.

Many thanks to all and sundry.

Jack

[Pete Eeles]

As a schoolboy, I once went camping near Kingussie, in Scotland, with a friend. High in the mountains one foggy day, we were watching a rather tame ptarmigan when a lunatic in an anorak launched himself out of the gloom, straight at the ptarmigan. The bird watched him, waited for him to be airborne, then zoomed off unscathed, mouthing avian obscenities. When we asked him, 'What the hell did you do that for?', he replied, 'I need ptarmigan on my touch list'. The man was a nutter.

Twitchers, eh!

Guy

Not only would he have such a list, he's also probably on a list

Cheers,

- Pete

[Lee Hurrell]

Did I read that right? He wanted to touch each bird?

Good luck with any birds of prey....

Cheers

Lee

[Lawts]

Hi Lawts,
It can indeed be very frustrating to visit a venue to see a species and find you are too early/late, but that is the very nature of Nature Nothing is totally predictable and I for one would not want it to be. If you got everything you wanted to see the first time you went to see it, you would soon get awfully bored and drift off to the next "challenge". I have certainly seen a much greater percentage of British butterflies than I would ever have seen without this site and it reignited an interest which had been in diapause since my days as a larva (sorry, I mean child) No website is perfect, but I would venture to suggest that Pete and the gang have one as close to that definition as you are ever likely to get. The site itself is also constantly evolving (with information posted by its members), so a greater understanding of each species, where they can be found and their likely flight dates will be gleaned over time. All the clues are there... we just have to try to fit them all together and be lucky. Good luck with your future ticks.

Trev

PS: Judging by a posting elsewhere on this site, Grizzled Skippers were out at Ketton Quarry yesterday

Don't get me wrong, I think the site is excellent, and I'd be lost without it. I can also relate to how chasing all the butterflies in one year is not the way to appreciate them, and I'm certainly not aiming to do that. I think my fears come from the following:

a) How species are declining and a fear that I may not see a species before it becomes extinct, or becomes so confined to restricted sites with no information forthcoming - that's my desire to "get on with it". If I thought all species were doing well, I'd have a much more leisurely approach.

b) The cost involved (petrol, accommodation etc.) in getting the dates wrong.

[Gibster]

by Pete Eeles » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:12 pm

padfield wrote:
As a schoolboy, I once went camping near Kingussie, in Scotland, with a friend. High in the mountains one foggy day, we were watching a rather tame ptarmigan when a lunatic in an anorak launched himself out of the gloom, straight at the ptarmigan. The bird watched him, waited for him to be airborne, then zoomed off unscathed, mouthing avian obscenities. When we asked him, 'What the hell did you do that for?', he replied, 'I need ptarmigan on my touch list'. The man was a nutter.

Twitchers, eh!

Guy


Not only would he have such a list, he's also probably on a list

I don't understand...surely everyone keeps a "birds I've touched" list? Same as every everyone keeps a "butterflies I've had perched on my nose" list. No??? Oh...

Gibster the (mostly ex-)Twitcher.

PS - In defence of my 2010 efforts to 'clear up' (ie twitch) the mainland British species I saw a heck of a lot of countryside I would probably never have seen before, explored some damn fine reserves, saw several species and many subspecies I'd not encountered before, and thoroughly enjoyed the "clock's a'ticking, so get a move on Gibster" scenario that pushed me through the summer months. And to top it all, I spent almost every outing in Sami's company. With so much distance to travel, and the pressure of connecting before a given flight time ended, and so little time off work the race was, quite literally, on. I personally thrive on that kind of daftness. And we noted so many great things.

As an example, the Graylings on The Orme in North Wales emerge earlier than any other Graylings in Britain. They are smaller and pretty darn tame. I had one land on my leg and others whoosh right past my face. They flew over gardens and grassy slopes in a lovely, sunny, friendly environment and nectared at red valerian patches. Nice stuff. A couple of months later we bumped into the Graylings up at Ardnamurchan Point in westernmost Scotland. And just getting there is a mission! We arrived in a landscape of rocks, crashing waves, seabird noise, a harsh environment. Nothing like The Orme. And the Graylings here are huge, stonking, strong looking beasts. No hope of one landing on your leg here, these are wild and untamed creatures in a wild landscape. And so darkly patterned, they are truly stunning insects. Absolutely brilliant!! OK, so we may not have learnt much about the day to day activities of an individual butterfly's daily routines but we managed to knock up a whole fistful of amazing memories.


Not that I feel I need to justify 2010's efforts. Or this coming season's. But the Twitcher in me likes to plan ahead as best I can to minimise defeats.

[Zonda]

Managed to borrow a friends aqualung and goggles yesterday. Rented a trout costume from a local fancy dress store, almost drowned, but i got my wild osprey touch ticked. Oh yes!

[Jack Harrison]

Touch-ticks

I am on the touch-tick list of several butterflies:
Orange Tip
Small Blue
Purple Emperor
Grayling

Jack

[Susie]

[quote="Gibster"]

I don't understand...surely everyone keeps a "birds I've touched" list?'

A bit like notches on your bedpost? Lol

' Same as every everyone keeps a "butterflies I've had perched on my nose" list. No???'
Oh...

Gibster the (mostly ex-)Twitcher.'

Of course!

[Jack Harrison]

Susie:

I don't understand...surely everyone keeps a "birds I've touched" list?' A bit like notches on your bedpost? Lol

My list stopped growing many years ago

Jack