ID requests - Italy

[Willem]

Dear,

Can somebody help me to identify following butterflies ( Italian Alps) ?










Thanks in advance

[Padfield]

Hi Willem,

The first is a female great sooty satyr, Satyrus ferula, and the third a male mountain fritillary, Boloria napaea.

I think the second is a female Piedmont ringlet, Erebia meolans, but I'd like to see a closer shot.

I'd also like to see a better resolution picture of the Pyrgus, as well as have an idea of its size. There are several species it could be from that view.

Guy

[Willem]

Hello Guy,

Thanks already,

You mentioned in another topic on the 'overseas' - forum you had a trick to distinguish napea/ pales ? Can you give me/us a clue ?
Here are the two pictures in higher resolution: http://www.maanvlek.be/Level3unknownuk.php

Number 20 & 21.

Thanks

[Padfield]

The 'trick' I mentioned was something I read in the Guide to the Butterflies of the Palearctic, Nymphalidae part II. It mentions that the mark in s.2 is typically well separated from the end of the cell in napaea but touches it or almost touches it in pales. This generally fits my own photographs, though some need a little imagination, and adds to the armoury of ID tips for these two species (in regions where pales is linear). The picture on the left, below, is yours - the picture on the right is pales from my own mountain:



I haven't really road-tested this feature, though.

I'm very unsure about the Pyrgus - perhaps someone else will be more confident. I wondered about cacaliae, but on that closer view it seems to lack the characteristic grey hairiness of cacaliae. A very weakly marked serratulae strikes me as a possibility too, or even an extremely weakly marked alveus... The cell markings don't look right to me for alveus. I guess warrenensis is another possibility, depending on where exactly you were.

This is a fairly worn cacaliae, showing what I mean about the grey hairs. But they may simply be worn off in yours.



Cacaliae is easily confirmed from the underside.

I'm not 100% on the Erebia either!! I'm hoping someone else will join the conversation and give their view!!

Guy

PS - a date and location would help

[Mikhail]

Erebia montana?

Misha

[Padfield]

Yes - I'm much happier with that. A male. I don't know why I didn't think of that sooner, as they're so common around where I live!

Guy

[Paul]

The pyrgus looks like the worn serratulae I photographed in the Rhone valley with Guy in 2009

[Willem]

Dear,

Thanks for the help - the pyrgus was taking on the sides of the Gran Paradiso - late august. I think the skipper captured my attention since it was rather small.. not 100 % sure.