ID difficult species

Dave McCormick · Post by **Dave McCormick** » Fri May 04, 2007 8:26 pm

I have a few tips of ID'ing species that look very similar or sexes look similar.

One thing to notice in similar sexes: Female abdomen is fatter. Not much help until you get close enough to see.

Saw this in female small tortoiseshell: The two lower sopts on forewings are larger slightly than in male.

Graylings: They are hard to tell from one another from resting poition. Here is one tip: Look at underside colours. Marking may look very similar in different graylings, but colour saturation may be different in different grayling species and some have slight different markings and a few have faded colours.

If anyone has another way to ID difficult species, say here.

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Fri May 04, 2007 8:33 pm

Hi Dave,

For every rule there is an exception ...

"One thing to notice in similar sexes: Female abdomen is fatter."
I assume you mean different sexes. Even this isn't definitive. Vannesids, in particular, are very difficult to tell apart.

"Saw this in female small tortoiseshell: The two lower sopts on forewings are larger slightly than in male."
This doesn't apply universally for all Small Tortoiseshells.

"Graylings"
I've no idea what you're saying here.

As for other problematic species, there are lots! At some point, distinguishing male from female of the same species, and species from species, will get added to this website.

Cheers,

- Pete

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Fri May 04, 2007 8:35 pm

See also this thread:

http://www.ukbutterflies.co.uk/phpBB2/v ... .php?t=560

Cheers,

- Pete

Dave McCormick · Post by **Dave McCormick** » Fri May 04, 2007 8:46 pm

Grayling undersides are very similar in most species. Its just the level of brightness in colour that is different mainly. Some have drker gray colours than others and a few have lighter colours and some have slightly different markings than other species of grayling.

Dave McCormick · Post by **Dave McCormick** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:10 pm

I have a diagram I created for my website that shows closeup of male and female spots and abdomen to show differences:

Hope this helps. I am doing similar for difficult similar sex species and very similar, similar species.

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:23 pm

Dave - I don't think this does help. I think it misinforms. The abdomen I can agree with

The spots I can't

Cheers,

- Pete

Dave McCormick · Post by **Dave McCormick** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:31 pm

The spots are a bit mis informing, but I just said on my webpage:

The female has larger spots than male, but don't just look at this. You won't be able to tell just from this. look at the abdomen. Its fatter than males. Once you recognise this, then you can tell what sex it is"

Is it because female has to hold eggs that her abdomen is fatter generally?

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:34 pm

Yes it is Dave.

I'm suggesting that you don't make assumptions regarding identification based on a sample of 2 individuals!

Cheers,

- Pete

Dave McCormick · Post by **Dave McCormick** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:40 pm

No, i just used this on my small tortoiseshell section. I am id-ing species e.g. common blue and adonis blue by showing right forewings beside eachother and that shows differences etc..

O.K. just replace that diagram above with a better, more accurate diagram that shows the left half of the two tortoiseshells: