Abberations

Dave McCormick · Post by **Dave McCormick** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:38 pm

First, is there any known abberation butterflies in N.I.? Second:

Does anyone have any live (living, in wilderness etc...) pics of any abberations of these butterflies I could use in my site?:

Small Tortoiseshell
Peacock
Red Admarial

If so, they need to be in best quality you have in 800x600 and you will need:

The location it was found (Place and country)
Date the pic ws taken
Who took pic (name)
Any info on the pic e.g. It was a warm day and many different species where around me.

I will create a page on my contributors pgae of whoever helps me. Just PM me if you have a pic and tell me about yourself so I can creat a page just for your contributions.

Thanks,

Dave

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:30 am

Hi Dave,

"is there any known abberation butterflies in N.I.? "
Of course there are! Aberrations aren't confined to location. However, "subspecies" typically are, and "forms" sometimes are.

Let me know if you're not sure what the difference between an aberration, subspecies and form is.

In terms of requests for photos - I suggest you get your website up and running first, and then post something here, so that visitors can get a better sense of what your website is trying to achieve, and how their contributions might fit in.

Cheers,

- Pete

Dave McCormick · Post by **Dave McCormick** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:09 am

Sure. That would be better. I was thinking back to Friday when I saw a small tortoiseshell and now that I remember, I think it was this:

un-named ab.
Female upperside

on top of abberations on this page: http://www.nhm.ac.uk/jdsml/research-cur ... ES=urticae

tried to get a photo of it, but it was too fast and I could not get a clear shot.

It has sort of more ligher brownish colours rather than red.

O.K. what is the difference between an abberation and a subspecies. This knowladge would be useful on my website.

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:12 am

See

http://www.learnaboutbutterflies.com/Glossary.htm

Cheers,

- Pete

Dave McCormick · Post by **Dave McCormick** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:19 pm

Thanks for help. Also, can an abberation species breed:

With other abberations and create more abberations of same kind

Can abberations breed with normal species e.g. an abberation of a peacock butterfly breed with normal form? If so, would this produce new abberation form or just normal species?

Finally, where is the best place or time of year to find abberations or are they common? I know its to do with cromosomes, but is it easy to find abberations and breed them?

Just curious to know these things.

Thanks,

David

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:37 pm

Hi Dave,

"Can an abberation species breed"
There's no such thing as an "aberration species" - only an aberration! And yes - an aberration can breed.

"With other abberations and create more abberations of same kind"
No - an aberration is not aberrant genetically (as far as I know) and this, therefore, has no effect whatsoever on offspring.

"Can abberations breed with normal species e.g. an abberation of a peacock butterfly breed with normal form?"
Yes.

"If so, would this produce new abberation form or just normal species?"
Just normal. The aberration is not genetically inherited as far as I know.

"Finally, where is the best place or time of year to find abberations"
Aberrations are not dependent on time of year whatsoever.

" or are they common?"
Depends on the aberration. Some are more common that others.

"is it easy to find abberations and breed them?"
Some aberrations can be artificially created by colling or heating (for example) the immature stages. But I can't think of any good reason for wanting to do such a thing.

Cheers,

- Pete

Cotswold Cockney · Post by **Cotswold Cockney** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:10 pm

Remember ~ every single butterfly is an abberation ~ no two are ever exactly identical although you may need to inspect them very closely to detect those differences. More extreme and obvious departures from the 'norm' are referred to as aberations.

If you rear every butterfly from all the ova from a single female, and subject all the larvae and pupae to identical or near identical conditions, there will be a range of variations ~ Darwin was well aware of this variation of course and that variation can mean some individuals are more advantageous thus having a better chance of survival than others.....

Some 'abberations' can be created by artificially conditioning the early stages. Others are genetically controlled and by pairing a male and female carrying the appropriate (recessive) gene, a proprtion of the resulting brood (usually 25%) will possess the 'abberant ' qualities. The rmaining 75% will possess those genes to a certain extent.

It's a fascinating subject and a search should turn up some interesting articles.

Many years ago, by selective captive breeding, a friend bred all blue female Chalkhill Blues. They were superb. No artificial conditioning was involved, the 'abberation' was purely genetic.

These very rarely turned up in the wild but, in many colonies that gene was always present there and provided the 'right' pairing occurred in the wild, the superb 'abberation' would appear in numbers some years.

Dave McCormick · Post by **Dave McCormick** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:17 pm

Hmmm... playing god as such. Well I would not do it just to breed a whole load of abberations, just one ore two. Know any websites that show abberations besides http://www.nhm.ac.uk/ ?

Know any moth abberations or is that harder to tell?

Post by **Pete Eeles** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:54 pm

Permission to change my mind - now that my brain is in gear! Dave - some mods to my original replies ...

"With other abberations and create more abberations of same kind"
Possibly - it depends on the aberration. Aberrations are either a result of the environment (e.g. temperature) or genetic inheritance. This is discussed quite nicely in "Butterflies" by E.B.Ford. Those that result from genetic inheritance may, indeed, result in further aberrations in a proportion of offspring. The Ringlet lanceloata aberration is an example.

"If so, would this produce new abberation form or just normal species?"
Depends on the genetic inheritance at play - involving recessive and dominant genes and the like

Cheers,

- Pete

Cotswold Cockney · Post by **Cotswold Cockney** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:15 pm

Dave McCormick wrote:Hmmm... playing god as such. Well I would not do it just to breed a whole load of abberations, just one ore two. Know any websites that show abberations besides http://www.nhm.ac.uk/ ?

Know any moth abberations or is that harder to tell?

We all play God one way or another!

Approximately 75% of the brood were NOT 'abberations'.

A broader sense of vision would realise that such experiments, often by those involved with conservation, learn much that are of real benefit to a species, particularly in the longer term. Only by breeding out a near FULL brood can an accurate assessment be made and lessons learned therefrom.

Dave McCormick · Post by **Dave McCormick** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:07 am

Just wonder if a abberation could be able to mate with a normal form? Becuase some species of butterfly (male) sees a female with say no lines where there should be some, he won't mate, some longwing butterflies have this tendency.

Post by **Padfield** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:40 pm

QED, though cleodoxa is a recurrent form, not an aberration (and this pair, sadly, was not photographed in the UK).

No racism among butterflies.

Guy