July 2010 competition

[Gruditch]

This is the July 2010 competition.

To enter the competition, please post a single image, taken within the month of July 2010 (1 post per member) as follows:

- Click on the "Gallery" link and then open the "July 2010" album
- Click the "NEWIMAGE" button
- Follow the instructions to upload a single image

To view the entries:

- Click on the "Gallery" link and then open the "July 2010" album

You'll be able to edit or delete your entry until 5th August. To do this:

- Select the "Moderate" link at the bottom of the image details
- Take the appropriate action

You will be unable to rate or comment on the image until the competition has been voted on. Comments and constructive critique are very welcome thereafter.

Look forward to seeing the entries roll in , good luck !

Regards Gruditch

[Gruditch]

Voting is now open.

As we have a few new guy's again this time, to vote go to the July Gallery, click on " no comments yet ", then at the bottom of the next page, you will see "Post a comment and rate the image" you can rate the images here.

Regards Gruditch

[Gruditch]

Congratulations to rodosranger 1st, Fishiee 2nd, and Trev Sawyer 3rd. and well done to all that entered.

Regards Gruditch

[Trev Sawyer]

Congratulations Rodosranger and Fishiee. I was pleasantly surpried to squeak in at number three - thanks to all who voted for me.

Trev

[Ian Pratt]

How does the scoring work. Why was Fishiee not first and johnb second?

[Gruditch]

Hi Ian,

The overall result is decided by the number of points you get, not the average rating.

21 people rated Rodosrangers image which totalled 160 points, the average rating was 7.62. Where as only 19 people rated Fishiee's image making a total of 156, and an average rating of 8.21. We couldn't really have the winner being decided by the average rating, because an image with a single rating could end up the winner.

Its admittedly not an perfect system, but neither was the old system. With the old system the entry's were not anonymous, and we had a fare bit of cheating, ( voting for ones self, plus a few bogus registered members, doing some extremely dodgy voting ).

The main problem I see with this system, is that in a close competition, there is quite a lot to be gained from not voting.

We have racked our brains to come up with a better system, but I think this is the best we can do.

Regards Gruditch

[Vince Massimo]

Gruditch,

It seems clear that not all who are entering the monthly competitions are voting. Whether this is intentional or not is another matter, but it can clearly skew the results when the competition is so close. Can I suggest a possible tweak to the present system which should overcome this particular problem?

I assume that you and Pete, as Moderators/Administrators can tell who has voted in any one month. In order for persons not to gain an advantage, would it be possible to just deduct 10 points from the final scores of those that have not voted (or have voted for less than a prescribed minimum number of images). If the system does not allow you to deduct points, why not add 10 bonus points at the end of the competition to all those that have voted instead?

Cheers,
Vince

(Edit) - Adding 10 bonus points would not overcome issues relating to tactical voting unless the bonus was awarded only to those persons that rated ALL of
the images. At the end of the day I don't know whether any of this will be practical, but thought it was worth mentioning.

Cheers (again)
Vince

[Zonda]

Gawd,,, politics raises its ugly head again.... Me,,, i'm not competitive,,,, lol ,, not good enough.

[Ian Pratt]

At the end of the day all competions involve a large amount of subjectivity. There is a large number of very good photographers on ukbutterflies and as long as nobody takes the results of the competitions too seriously that is fine. I have a monthly fun photo competiton for my four adult children and it has improved their photography no end. There is no prize apart from bragging rights and that is how it should be in my humble opinion. Colin Varndell who is a natural history photographer whom I respect founded a camera club where there were no competitions as he felt competitions brought out the worst in people. He may have had a point.

[Pete Eeles]

Adding 10 bonus points would not overcome issues relating to tactical voting unless the bonus was awarded only to those persons that rated ALL of the images. At the end of the day I don't know whether any of this will be practical, but thought it was worth mentioning.

Thanks Vince. Unfortunately, I don't think it is practical. Just going on the maths, someone might generally vote between 5 and 10, and another from 3 to 7 - on average. Therefore, adding or deducting "10" wouldn't reflect their voting pattern in relation to other competitors. At the end of the day, the mechanism in place is intended to be as fair as possible. Although I could build something to identify those individuals that submitted a photo but didn't vote, we'd need to figure out the voting pattern - what is the threshold if they only give other competitors between, say, 1 and 5 points? I'm sure you get the point!

To be honest, if the voting were to get ridiculously skewed, we've have to have a panel vote instead (as we've had to implement for the annual comp.).

Cheers,

- Pete

[Vince Massimo]

Thanks Vince. Unfortunately, I don't think it is practical.

Yup, thought so

Thanks still go to yourself and Gruditch for taking the time to make this all work as fairly as possible.

Cheers,
Vince

Congratulations also to the people that made it onto the front page this month. My favourite was Trev's WLH.

[Charles Nicol]

Well done to everyone...good to see that johnb performed well

Charles

[NickB]

Yep - Well done to everyone who enters
I agree with Ian - it is so subjective that to get agitated about the whole thing is counter-productive!
I recently spoke to a member of my old camera club; his response to butterfly photography was, "Oh, no! Not another 'butterfly-on-a-stick' merchant!"....even tho' as a photographer he should at least be able to understand the technicalities and difficulties of getting a perfect butterfly-on-stick picture!
So you can't please everyone - just please yourself by continuing to do what you enjoy
....I much prefer to post stuff in an open forum than have to pick just one to be "judged" anyway....
To be fair, the standard now is so high generally that any one of several could be chosen and I'm sure that there are many more out there equally as good that are not posted anyway....my favourite, for what it is worth, (for being a bit different) was Susie's Scabious and Blue......
N

[Gruditch]

Luckily my camera club is very much into natural history photography. But there are some clubs around, where your better of taking pictures of a deckchair, or some old fart selling the Big Issue. As you say its very subjective.

Regards Gruditch

[NickB]

But there are some clubs around, where your better of taking pictures of a deckchair, or some old fart selling the Big Issue. As you say its very subjective. Regards Gruditch

Big fast cars and aeroplanes at my last one...
N

[Gruditch]

Big fast cars and aeroplanes

There is a lot to be gained from being in a good camera club, but join the wrong one and it could put you off photography for good. My advise is to go as a guest to a club assessment evening, ignore the guest judge, he could be an idiot into deckchairs. Just see what images the club members put up for assessment, if its your sort of stuff.

Regards Gruditch

[NickB]

There is a lot to be gained from being in a good camera club... Regards Gruditch

Indeed! It can be an inspiration to see what others produce....
It certainly made me understand how much I needed to learn ....
N

[Catteraxe]

I must own up to being one of those who entered the monthly competition but didn't vote. The reason being I didn't realise I was supposed to vote and for this I apologise. Although I'm not too sure about the premise of 'compulsory' voting. Anyhow, I now know what's expected for the future

[Deano]

Hi all,

Many congratulations to all the winners of another excellent competition, and as ever, well done to all the other entrants. It was a superb collection of images once again.

Regards,
Deano.

[mattberry]

Haven't been on the site for a while, popped in yesterday and noticed I'd won the July comp! Thanks to everyone who voted and well done to the others on the podium.

I don't think I voted so hold my hands up to that! As I am not visiting the site every day I am afraid I simply forgot all about the comp and voting deadlines.

Maybe it should be mandatory that all entrants have to vote? An email reminder with a direct link to the voting page would help me, and maybe others?

Just a thought.

Matt