Last of the summer wine... oh gawd

[Paul]

having been out of this "wonderful" country for a few days, I forgot that being pleasant is perceived by Brits as being an annoying weakness - yet when I get back to work I have to be sweetness and light to every godamn tw*t that I see, otherwise they complain.... I'm sorry but we live in a s**t society that worsens every year... I pity the young, for it will only worsen.

[Padfield]

I'm glad you've enjoyed the pictures, Jack, and hope you will visit Switzerland in due course. I'd be delighted to help you find some of these wonderful alpine species, though I have to say the boys were extraordinarily lucky with the weather on this occasion, and a short July trip to the Alps risks equally being a total washout (ask Paul)!

The public linking of species to sites is not something I am free to do, for a whole host of reasons, not least among them being that I benefit from privileged information from various sources and am trusted not to release it. There is general distribution data available here:

http://lepus.unine.ch/carto/

The policy is for records to be published to 5km square precision, though many of the actual records are now to the nearest 5m, with the aid of GPS. I'm sure there are people prepared to reveal sites to greater precision, but I will stick to the public policy of the CSCF (Centre Suisse de Cartographie de la Faune) which, as I say, shares its more detailed information with me on trust.

As for the level of athleticism necessary, it is true that some high species require considerable energy expenditure, at my sites for them at least. That said, other species abound even in the car parks of well-known alpine passes. Taking my parents (both now on the far side of 75) as an example, I know that if they'd come with us on our recent trips they would have seen Eros and alpine blues but probably missed out on Cynthia's fritillary and dewy ringlets.They would have had cranberry blue but perhaps not glandon blue, &c. I obviously don't know your exact fitness levels, but there are excellent alpine butterflies within reach of all.

If I were here when you came, Jack, I would be delighted to show you many of these butterflies, and if I were not I would gladly point you at excellent general alpine sites. All I can't do, for reasons I hope you understand even if you don't agree with them, is give directions in a public forum to particular species, particularly such sensitive ones as the Maculinea. For true Alpine species, you can't go much wrong with a July trip, and many of them are still on the wing through August (the higher the later).

Guy

[Jack Harrison]

Thanks Guy, I understand the policy and here is not the place to debate the pros and cons of such a policy.

I certainly never had in mind being told about precise localities. I just looked for the most general of ideas about where you were based, the routes you took and successes or otherwise – in other words, a typical trip report. Google Earth or other maps would give me all the information I look for. For example: “we found X, Y and Z in the valley to North West of Grindelwald” (link to map showing location of Grindelwald).

Maybe I might be able to visit Switzerland some time even if only to explore roadsides and car parks.

Incidentally, if you are ever in the area I can take you to an excellent site for Meadow Browns. And you never know, we might even see some Ringlets if we are lucky

Jack

[NickB]

Paul - Indeed! Reality hits when you sit down in front of the computer and start work!
"Oh, shit! Am I really STILL here, surrounded by idiots? ****!

When I heard what the government is suggesting it does for healthcare - make doctors, clinicians, responsible for the budgets that Health Care Trusts administer - I immediately imagined all the "private enterprise" that will jump in to "help" doctors do that....isn't that privatisation? Or you pay and then we make a profit on everything that moves?
H'mm ....... or am I just too old and cynical.
Plus ca change...

Bur didn't we have a fantastic trip and weren't we privileged to be able to do that - everything came together! So all that negative karma you have absorbed as part of your job was replaced by a huge rush of very positive karma in all the places and things we managed to see in those few days....And thanks, in the main, to Guys hospitality and his sharing his knowledge with us..... and a litre of whisky.....and little luck, we'll be able to do it again sometime......And I hope we four are able to run to a second series of "Last of..."
(The question surely is: just who would be Compo...? H'mm - as the only native-Yorkshireman.....)

N

[NickB]

Thanks Guy, And you never know, we might even see some Ringlets if we are lucky
Jack

..And Jack has the best Ringlets in S. Cambs...

[Rogerdodge]

Jack
We spent considerable time with Guy discussing the disclosure of locations. Things are very different on the continent compared to the UK, and I fully agree with Guy's opinion on the non-disclosure of sites on a public forum.
As far as the type of terrain covered -

• 1/ Woodland - very like Bentley Wood, level and no more than 1/2 mile need be walked
  2/ Cynthia Site - quite a long and steep climb. A combination of a serious hangover, altitude, lack of sleep and 30 years of smoking (I gave up 10 years ago) meant I didn't make the final 400m to the site. My dehydration was relieved by drinking the melt water from the glacier - fabulous.
  3/ Riverside Site - We never went further than a 100m level walk from the car.
  4/ Erebia Site - Steep, rough climb, but only a half mile or so.
  5/ Maculinea site 1 - Only 10m from car, fairly steep, but not at all arduous
  6/ Maculinea Site 2 - 300 yards level walk from car park, with level walk around lake - 1 mile?
  7/ Maculinea Site 3 - 1/2 mile gentle climb - but most species seen just 400m from car park and bar!
  8/ Cranberry Frit - Just 10 metres from car - level but a bit boggy.
  9/ Cranberry Blue - fairly gentle climb. Go as far as you want, with new species arriving with every altitude increase. Target blue was found just 100m from car park.
  10/ Guy's wood - Level walk from car - 3/4 mile max.

Every site had great butterflies right next to the car, or a very short walk. Some high level species need walking to a greater or lesser degree. I reckon that we saw 90+ species without going further than a few hundred yards from the car.
On every drive, we passed dozens of places that looked as if they would reward further exploration.
If we weren't on such a whistle-stop tour perhaps we would have seen more species at the sites we visited, and I would also have reached the Cynthia site (given more time and less of a hangover!).
When I return to Switzerland, this will be my first site visit - I regret missing this spectacular butterfly more than I can say!!
Switzerland is awesome. The scenery is always breathtaking, and the place is just so clean and tidy. One morning we arrived at the car to find that the local kids had lifted the wipers off the windscreen. That is what passes for vandalism in Switzerland!!
Guy took a hell of a gamble inviting two complete strangers and another chap he had only met once, to his home. As it turned out, we all got on famously - especially after the first evening when we demolished a stupid amount of Duty Free and got to bed at daft o'clock having put the world to rights and exchanged many confidences (as you do!).

All-
I am planning a week long trip to Slovenia in 2012 - probably for 8 people.
Send me a private message if you want to be on the list.

[traplican]

Incidentally, if you are ever in the area I can take you to an excellent site for Meadow Browns. And you never know, we might even see some Ringlets if we are lucky

I never know when Brits talk turkey and when only joke . When I had searched on Internet what to do with the water voles in the garden and found "water vole release" I consider it to be a joke: My garden is full of water voles and I have coped out the fight against them because it was unefficient.

I have hesitated long time if bring exact sites into the open. At last I have done it although I don't know if I do well. But on Internet or TV we can see information about localities of most sensitive species and the most interesting sites are well-known. It is unlikely that in private orchards beyond the back yards of houses in Jankovice suddenly meet more of European buttefly collectors and merchants. Owners would soon note it and banish them out (and most probably me together with them, unluckily). But butterly enthusiasts with ethics are welcome. The most risk for these sites aren't amateur entomologists but environment changes.

[Jack Harrison]

traplican wrote:

I never know when Brits talk turkey and when only joke .

It must be incredibly difficult for a non-Brit.

I was of course joking and being deliberately flippant. Meadow Browns are as common as politicians’ lies. Sorry, that’s probably another difficult one (politicians’ lies) for you to understand, but perhaps you are starting to get the idea how our (well my own) brand of stupid humour works.

Jack

[traplican]

I thing I have understood but I only wanted to ensure.

[Padfield]

I thought Jack was serious. I didn't say anything because he is very sensitive and I didn't want to hurt his feelings.

Guy

[Rogerdodge]

I didn't say anything because he is very sensitive and I didn't want to hurt his feelings.

I know
Did you see how upset he got when I didn't include him in the list of good Lumix photographers.
Poor old soul

[Jack Harrison]

I have given Roger some advice in the Lumix thread:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4403&p=34928#p34936

Jack

[traplican]

Sorry, that’s probably another difficult one (politicians’ lies) for you to understand, but perhaps you are starting to get the idea how our (well my own) brand of stupid humour works.

Jack

After popular fictive Czech genius, inventor of everything and errant theatre owner is not true but mistake fundamenal for gnose (presented here by recently deceased actor Smoljak).

Process of cognize:
After Bohlen: True (inacurate) - precising - we know all
After Cimrman: Mistake (acurate) - refuting - we know nothing (but we know it surely).

[Padfield]

Traplican, that must surely be the most obscure and cryptic post ever made on UK Butterflies!!

I did some research and found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%A1ra_Cimrman

Very interesting. You are a twisted lot, you Czechs...

Guy

[NickB]

...now here's a real crap piece of s*** for Roger and Jack

..oh, and a couple of Lesser Purple Emperors got in too - hope you don't mind

[Cotswold Cockney]

The most risk for these sites aren't amateur entomologists but environment changes.

This is THE risk worldwide.... The beautiful deserted alpine slopes I visited in Austria forty years ago are now devoted to winter sports and the environment is hugely changed. When I was last in Switzerland thirty years ago, at thirty-something I was the youngest in the party of very experienced butterfly observers and collectors. Those then far more experienced of the previous Swiss loclaity visits than I were sad at the changes they had witnessed even back then ~ I thought everything was wonderful ... and it was ... but not as wonderful as before according to the others in the party.

Nothing lasts forever .. which is often a very sad state of affairs...
.
Nothing wrong with Meadow Browns and Ringlets. I am always delighted to see the first fresh emergences in my own little reserve. Common Blues breed there too and I get as much pleasure seeing those beautiful butterflies as I do seeing the Adonis Blues up on the Chalk Grasslands. I have sometimes been in a group of so called butterfly 'enthusiasts' and heard remarks on the lines of "It's only a Common Blue, lets move on" ... an insect which to my eyes is just as beautiful as the Adonis and Chalkhill. I really dislike this 'species snobbery' which many 'enthusiasts' demonstrate.

I have often wondered if the situation were reversed, and the Adonis Blue was more widespread and the Common the local scarce one, their respective status and 'values' would also be reversed...

But then, I've always been a 'bit funny' like that.... after all I'm interested in Moths and Butterflies ... Nuff sed....
.

[NickB]

One of my best moments this year was watching a pristine male Common Blue taking in the early-morning sun...
Just me and him, amongst the birds and grasses and flowers as the place starts to warm with the sun's first rays .....
I think we all share these feelings, whatever the species....

[NickB]

..only 2 weeks ago - we were looking at mountains like this...

Whilst seeing butterflies like this....

and the odd erebia...

...and birds like this (Honey?) Buzzard....

[Padfield]

Just in case those are among the butterflies you need names for, Nick, they are:

Violet fritillary (Clossiana dia)
Pearl-bordered fritillary (Clossiana euphrosyne)
Bright-eyed ringlet (Erebia oeme)

Your pictures definitely make it worth carrying all that glass around!!

Guy

[JKT]

Violet fritillary (Clossiana dia)