Well said Felix!!!........My recent postings a few weeks ago regarding the use of Nets ruffled a few feathers but the same goes here; Jump on the seller or breeder & automatically assume they are guilty! Leave the knowledgeable folk who expertly captive breed the Large Copper continuously in captivity & go back to searching out that 'perfect photograph' & 20 years or so down the line when a piece of fenland is restored to a suitable state for the Large Copper to hopefully breed on then we can gratefully approach them to ask for some of their stock to help with a re-introduction project. If they are hounded by the Politically correct/ having a go at whoever they think they should /giving them short change brigade then it will be driven totally underground once & for all!Felix wrote:It is coincidental - these are two different individuals.Eris wrote:And when I did a google search I noted that on a web page about collectors it mentioned that someone who was an egg collector had been convicted of selling Large Blue and High brown and was convicted at Salisbury magistrates. I then noticed from the Ebay listings the seller of these current specimens, which include large blue and High Brown is located in Salisbury which I thought was a bit of a coincidence.
Woodwalton Large Copper stock only exists in captivity now. Were is not for the efforts of hobby-breeders the stock would have been lost years ago.
The sale of specimens such as those listed on Ebay may be repugnant to many people, but it is important to keep these things in perspective. In the majority of cases it is perfectly legal to sell specimens resulting from captive bred stock. This may be repellent to many people, but it is legal. What we personally find distasteful is one matter, whether or not something should be curtailed on those grounds alone is another. We should be careful not to seek to impose our will on others simply as an emotion driven knee jerk reaction.
The majority of hobby-breeders are butterfly enthusiasts. Many are active members of BC, and some keen amateurs have assisted with the reintroduction of species to sites where they have been lost (Heath Fritillary, Pearl Bordered Fritillary (in Sussex) etc.).
When stock is required for a reintroduction it is very often these hugely experienced individuals who are called upon to assist.
It is also important to remember (if I may echo CC's comments) that when compared to the ongoing loss of suitable habitat; and in particular landscape-scale meta habitat, these issues are mere trifles, irrespective whether or not we find the sight of a set specimen for sale on Ebay distasteful.
Unless all butterfly enthusiasts, in whatever guise the may take, join together with a united voice we may as well forget it. The divide that seems to exist between butterfly photographers and any one who has a more hands on interest in whatever form that may take; scientific study, simple enjoyment through keen observation, or captive breeding, is worrying and potentially very unhelpful to what is ultimately our united cause: saving butterflies, moths and their habitats.
Felix.
What is wrong with a livestock dealer (what few of them are still around) selling (for a reasonable price of course) captive reared stock for example of the Large Copper (Batavus) whilst maintaining & exchanging the stock with other expert breeders? When I was a child I purchased much livestock from Worldwide Butterflies Ltd from Sherbourne, Dorset & learnt a lot from the close interaction with all the lifestages of each particular species. What a shame that most children do not have the chance to indulge in this! Hopefully the anti breeding folk on here are proud of their stance against this!! I will continue to obtain legal livestock & raise them with my young children to educate them when the opportunity arises. I also take photos too but do not wish to be so blinking aloof as to have a pop at every Tom, Dick & Harry that either is seen with a net or dares to take an butterfly egg or larva to rear through & massively improve it's chances of reaching adulthood. Maybe these 'lovers of butterflies' should just continue to 'tick & click' (tick transect forms & click cameras) & let us get on with enjoying our hobby! From what I've read in recent weeks on here there is a huge gulf between these two camps that will not be resolved. It is pointless arguing your point against some butterfly/moth lovers as they own our country's butterflies/moths & all other objects with wings/legs as we MUST NOT TOUCH OR ELSE! Very good points from Cotswold Cockney too & I'm sure he is extremely knowledgeable in breeding but in years to come is these very important skills & information going to be largely lost forever? Brilliant observation for the Swallowtail disliking the milky sap from Milk Parsley & then biting the stem lower down to wilt the foiliage?! This might (hypothetically) just be very crucial information that could be critical in saving this magnificent species from eventual extiction in Britain! When the habitats are mostly gone & no one is allowed to do anything anymore then there will be virtually nothing to photograph either? Maybe then we all might join together? Doubt it though based on some of what I've read recently.
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