News from Collard Hill

[Pete Eeles]

Sure is - thanks Guy! Where did you find this?

Cheers,

- Pete

[Piers]

Yay! Cheers Guy

So, If the NE website is to be believed, the Large Blue in Britain (previously offered full protection in the 1981 Act) is now offered the more limited protection under (b) and (c) above, as well as protection for sale.

Felix.

[Padfield]

See:

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.as ... cId=809266

Guy

[Pete Eeles]

Report at http://www.ukbutterflies.co.uk/reports_law.php amended accordingly

Cheers,

- Pete

[Piers]

I suppose that no longer receiving full protection is a sign of how well it's doing.

[Padfield]

Hi Pete. Once every 24 hours I go to sleep for a bit. Have you ever tried this?

Or have you lost your daytime job?

Guy

[Pete Eeles]

Or have you lost your daytime job?

I've been working in Copenhagen for the last couple of months with plenty of time stuck in a hotel room to do something productive!

Cheers,

- Pete

[Padfield]

I suppose that no longer receiving full protection is a sign of how well it's doing.

It's quite something, isn't it! The large blue, no longer receiving full protection in the UK!!

Even though the UK populations are not 'original' British large blues, they're sufficiently different from the often rather small, melanic, Swiss butterflies that I'm very keen to see them. I remember looking at them in books when I was a child and dreaming...

Guy

[Piers]

the often rather small, melanic, Swiss butterflies

Would that be altitude Guy? The Dartmoor 'race' of the English Large Blue was often described thus (by comparison to Cornish specimens), similarly specimens from other higher altitude European colonies.

Regarding the change in UK legislation, it kind of makes sense: there is no longer any need for them to receive full protection under UK legislation as they are now 'covered' by the European Habitats Directive (including that it is illegal to poses specimens, or even iddy widdy bits there of).

Felix.

[Padfield]

Would that be altitude Guy? The Dartmoor 'race' of the English Large Blue was often described thus (by comparison to Cornish specimens), similarly specimens from other higher altitude European colonies.

Indeed. I spend most of my butterflying life at altitude, in Switzerland or in the Pyrenees (when my posts say 'Rhône Valley' they are typically 600m+ and may be up to 2500m). At altitude the ambient temperature may be much lower than it seems on an apparently hot, sunny day, and it plummets tangibly when the sun goes in. Butterflies need to be able to warm up quickly, particularly in the morning after a clear night. So the large blues I see are nothing like those glorious British insects!

This female is actually rather bright for her altitude (Switzerland, 1900m) but she was only the size of a normal common blue:



This is from the Pyrenees at about 1700m:



You can see why I'd like to see the British variety!

Guy

[Zonda]

I always assumed that a Large blue was the same size as a Speckled wood. Am i right in this assumption?

[Rogerdodge]

Zonda
I have seen really tiny early Speckled Wood, and in mid summer they can be much larger.
I think size is about the least reliable indentification characteristic.
The LBs at Collard are noticeably larger than the Common Blues found there.

[Padfield]

I think size is about the least reliable indentification characteristic.

Very true. I took this confusing picture in 2005 (marsh fritillary with probably an olive skipper):



There is a bit of perspective involved, too!

Guy

[Cotswold Cockney]

About thirty years ago, the late Jack Newton or Tetbury, Glos., showed me his mainly moth collections. His passion was the UK's Microlepidoptera of which he had an extensive knowledge and experience. No small feat ~ forgive the near pun.

He also had a short series of Large Blues from the Whiteshill area in Gloucestershire where it was numerous in the 1950s. They were quite large but, not as 'blue' as those from Cornwall I've seen. He also had a small series of Large Blues from Japan. Now they really deserved the title Large. They were the size of male Speckled Woods and very Blue. Originally from the NE of the country IIRC, his collection was destined for one of the Museums up North after his death ...? Newcastle ?

Since I was a small boy, I've met many of the old collectors with experience of Cotswold Large Blues. Russell Bretherton, who was about 80 when he, myself, Peter Cribb and two others toured some the fine Alpine regions in the summer of 1981, he was remarkably fit for his age and was able to access the higher slopes almost as quickly as us 'youngsters' could. We saw many examples of the 'dark' Large Blues of the region, and indeed one of the Marsh Blues in a lower Swiss locality... Both Russell and Peter had experience of the Cotswold localities and from what they told me, and the stories of several other 'names' with similar experiences, the insect was both widespread and numerous in localities all along those Hills. One of the younger enthusiasts, took a coloured slide of a good locality which he passed to me years ago and I still have ~ complete with a picture of his new Singer Gazelle car in the same shot. Which dates it around mid~1950s. That locality looks much the same today ....

Great days ... gorn forever.
..

[Zonda]

Roger said, ,,, after chastising me about size being the least reliable id aid,,

The LBs at Collard are noticeably larger than the Common Blues found there.

Yes, but are the Common blues large Common blues, or small Common blues. I mean, could a large Common blue be the same size as a small Large blue. This is where size comparison runs aground.

[Padfield]

... and indeed one of the Marsh Blues in a lower Swiss locality...

I'd love to know which. It wouldn't be alcon, would it? There are scant records of this species for Switzerland, apart from in the low-lying areas around Zürich and Luzern. In SW Switzerland it is scarce, declining and seriously threatened (my friend, Matt, found a colony just a few years ago and when we visited it this year it appeared to be extinct, with no eggs apparent on the relatively few Gentiana pneumonanthe plants we found). The more widespread rebeli isn't really a marsh species, though you might mean one of the two sanguisorbe feeders, telejus or nausithous.

Guy

[Cotswold Cockney]

... and indeed one of the Marsh Blues in a lower Swiss locality...

I'd love to know which. It wouldn't be alcon, would it? There are scant records of this species for Switzerland, apart from in the low-lying areas around Zürich and Luzern. In SW Switzerland it is scarce, declining and seriously threatened (my friend, Matt, found a colony just a few years ago and when we visited it this year it appeared to be extinct, with no eggs apparent on the relatively few Gentiana pneumonanthe plants we found). The more widespread rebeli isn't really a marsh species, though you might mean one of the two sanguisorbe feeders, telejus or nausithous.

Guy

... and indeed one of the Marsh Blues in a lower Swiss locality...

I'd love to know which. It wouldn't be alcon, would it? There are scant records of this species for Switzerland, apart from in the low-lying areas around Zürich and Luzern. In SW Switzerland it is scarce, declining and seriously threatened (my friend, Matt, found a colony just a few years ago and when we visited it this year it appeared to be extinct, with no eggs apparent on the relatively few Gentiana pneumonanthe plants we found). The more widespread rebeli isn't really a marsh species, though you might mean one of the two sanguisorbe feeders, telejus or nausithous.

Guy

Hi Guy, I prepared a reply to this but pressed the Save button instead of the Submit ~ can I recover it if so how ~ or is it lost for all time ...

[Pete Eeles]

Go to the "User Control Panel"

Select "Manage Drafts"

Select "Load draft"

Then edit and ... Submit!

Cheers,

- Pete

[Cotswold Cockney]

Go to the "User Control Panel"

Select "Manage Drafts"

Select "Load draft"

Then edit and ... Submit!

Cheers,

- Pete

Thanks Pete ~ I did try that last night but, got a No drafts saved showing ~ does that mean it's gorn forever? I definitely clicked the Save button instead of submit. Have done that before and lost a long posting ~ Couldn't be bothered to do it all over again ~ I'd prefer not to have that Save button as it's easily done.

Tried it again few minutes ago ~ same negative result.. I'm going to do a test saving and see what happens to that..

John.

[Pete Eeles]

Hi John,

I'm afraid it looks like the draft has been "lost". When you click "Save" you also need to click "Yes" on the following screen

Cheers,

- Pete