Painted Lady influx!!!

[geniculata]

another painted lady still flying strongly in highcliffe today ( see pic in sightings thread )

gary.

[Vince Massimo]

Thank you all for your kind words guys - I may have some news.

At midday today I saw a Painted Lady flying in the rear garden - in exactly the same place where I released the hatchling on 17th. This is too much of a coincidence, so I must assume that the little fella decided to stay - at least until he gets a northerly tailwind!.

Cheers,

Vince.

[Susie]

Surely it is too late for them to leave now? Any left here are dooooooomed.

[Padfield]

To be honest, I doubt he ever had any intention of leaving. I certainly wouldn't advise it. He's much better off living out his last days hanging around a British garden, with a red admiral or two for company, than embarking on a lonely and exhausting flight to certain death a few degrees of latitude further south.

Guy

[Dave McCormick]

To be honest, I doubt he ever had any intention of leaving. I certainly wouldn't advise it. He's much better off living out his last days hanging around a British garden, with a red admiral or two for company, than embarking on a lonely and exhausting flight to certain death a few degrees of latitude further south.

Guy

But could they stay in Britian without dying over winter due to the conditions in winter here? If the main group that did leave managed to reach the medaterrinain (sp?) and North Africa where their ancestors came from, they could surely survive the winter as its warmer there. But I don't know much about how Painted Ladies survive the winter.

[Padfield]

Conventional wisdom is that painted ladies don't (and can't) hibernate. Felix has suggested they have been known to survive the winter in England but if he's right it certainly isn't the norm. I don't think they migrate back to Africa from England, either. I think the vast, vast majority of the European summer generations simply die, without any legacy.

Guy

[Gruditch]

I hate to disagree with Guy, who's has forgotten more about about butterflies then I'm yet to learn. But some transect reports in the UK proved there was some sort of mass movement in mid August, and is Lynn's November sightings from Crete just to be ignored.

I believe that a successful Painted lady migration, ( that probably was the norm many years ago ) is done, judging by the timings I've witnessed, in in four generations, with maybe a fifth overwintering in Africa.

Regards Gruditch

[Piers]

Hi Guy,

I agree with Gary - data from across the south of England, particularly from the south west is certainly pointing to mass southerly/south westerly movements in August. There was also of course a sudden and significant drop in numbers sighted from that point onwards, with no obvious cause for any kind of population wide mortality.

The first (I think this is the first) proof positive of Painted Lady successfully over wintering in this country was an individual marked with a permanent marker pen in October 1997 at Hayle in Cornwall. This same butterfly was observed again in April 1998 following a mild Winter (although with some nights dropping to -2 degC locally). The individual was last seen in the locality on May 19th that year.

I don't have any PL's left in my neck of the woods, but I would be interested to hear of any mark and release experiments this Autumn, it could provide a valuable insight into PL hibernation in this country. There are certainly enough individuals hanging around to make it a worthwhile consideration should anyone feel comfortable/confident/able to do this. Please PM me (at the risk of people flying off the handle at my suggestion) if you would like to conduct such an exercise and I shall let you know how to carry this out without harming the butterfly.

Felix.

[Padfield]

I'm eager to learn more! What you're saying doesn't match what I understand about the logic of these movements but that just makes it more exciting.

Guy

[Gruditch]

On Monday the 10th August, there were still a few PL knocking about in other peoples gardens, but I noted that the 20+ we had on the buddleia were gone. On the Tuesday evening, I received an email from a college who coordinates several local transects, " where have all the Painted Lady's gone". I did my transect two days later, the PL numbers that had been over 100 for several weeks, just plummeted from 150 to 28. We then checked out both Broughton, and Stockbridge Downs, and it was the same story there.

As there had been a strong Northerly wind blowing for 4 or 5 days, its fair to assume that they would not pick this time to battle against it and head North. So they must of gone South. Did they cross the sea, I can't prove that they did, but from Danebury the most Northerly of the 3 sites mentioned, you can see the Isle Of White. I doubt that a migratory species like the PL would fly for less than an hour and settle on the South cost, so I guess they attempted a sea crossing.

Then there is Lynn's post, and remember Lynn is the Reserves Manager for the Hants Butterfly Conservation sites, so she knows what she's talking about.


Crete October 2009

We arrived on Crete on 13th October and we noted small numbers of Painted Lady in the first three days of our stay. On 16th October we were at the top of the Topolia Gorge, one of several gorges in western Crete that run in a north - south direction, and we became aware of a steady stream of Painted Lady, about 60-80 per hour, flying south along the road towards the gorge at 4pm in the afternoon.

The next morning at breakfast in the mountains at Milia increasing numbers were seen, again all heading south, in the early morning sunshine until 10am when it became overcast with drizzle and the migration stopped. The maximum count was 100 in 5 minutes across 50m. A few were seen later in the afternoon flying in light rain but no further migration was noted that day.

On 18th further southerly migration was noted all morning and a count at the northern end of the Topolia gorge produced a rate of 400 per hour through the gorge at midday.

We visited the slopes of Mount Ida (Psiloritis) in the centre of the island on the 19th, our last full day. A five minute count across 50m at 2.15pm amongst the Kermes Oaks produced 26 cardui (312 per hour) all still heading south. By 4.30pm we were down on the south coast at Agios Galini and hundreds of cardui were found nectaring on flowering Tamarisk trees on the beach. Despite the numbers present no visible migration was seen and we speculated that this was due to an unwillingness to set off over the sea that late in the day. By 5pm they had gone to roost among the Tamarisk. We like to think that they made the flight safely across the southern Mediterranean to Africa over the following day(s).

Regards Gruditch

[Padfield]

Our entire school is leaving at the end of next week to spend 10 days on a luxury cruiser in the Mediterranean, visiting assorted cultural spots like Knossos, the Pyramids and the beach at Syracuse where Archimedes was murdered. I opted not to go with them, for many reasons, including not particularly wanting to spend 10 days on a luxury cruiser (I'm more of a camp fire and leaky tents man). BUT the biology teacher did ask me if I could suggest a couple of butterflies the students might look out for on their travels. I thought it would be interesting, this year in particular, if they kept an eye out for painted ladies and recorded numbers, behaviour, flight direction &c. wherever they went. The other species I suggested monitoring was geranium bronze - something they might find in the towns they visit. Unfortunately I fear it's a bit late in the year for their observations to yield any insight into the painted lady migration phenomenon but you never know. I prepared full colour identification sheets for them and explained exactly what to look for and why I was interested.

While they're away I'll be out hunting purple emperor and white admiral caterpillars in my local woods.

On the question of surviving the winter north of the Mediterranean, the conventional wisdom (which of course might be wrong) is, again, that they can't hibernate. That doesn't mean they can't ever survive the winter, only that they don't have a metabolic strategy for doing so. True hibernators enter this phase relatively early - so most of us won't have seen small tortoiseshells, peacocks, large tortoiseshells, Camberwell beauties, commas, brimstones &c. for some while now. My last true hibernator was a single peacock on 1st Nov but I haven't seen most of the others for a lot longer than this, and that was an isolated individual. Red admirals seem to fly and take nutrients until the last possible moment. Their colouring suggests they have adapted for a winter diapause stage but their hibernation is not anything like as profound as in what I think of as true hibernators. I have evidence that adult Queen of Spain can survive the winter, but again this seems to be almost accidental, rather than a metabolic strategy. I have never seen a painted lady survive the winter in the Rhône Valley. Even in 2007, after that exceptional non-winter which saw clouded yellows and QoS flying in January, I saw no painted ladies until the annual immigration in May. SO, while I am now happy to believe in the southward migration, I am still very sceptical of the possibility of any meaningful overwintering in temperate regions.

We will see! I think next spring is going to be very interesting, what with Queens emerging in Sussex and all these painted ladies that might have survived the winter!

Guy

[Zonda]

Gosh,,,,you shouldn't take kids to where Archimedes was murdered. It's the principle of the thing. Maybe your Painted lady assumptions differ from some of ours because the British Isles is warmer than mainland Europe. I am not a great expert.

[Piers]

Ok, for 'hibernate' read 'over winter' (accidentally or otherwise); and there can be little doubt that the Painted Lady is capable of doing so, much like the Red Admiral which is now generally accepted to be a transitory resident, at least in Southern England. This year would be a good year to test the butterflies ability to do so.

Guy, what forces would/could trigger a southerly migration? presumably these triggers would be different than those (population density?) that triggered the northerly migration from Morocco last Spring?

Felix.

[Padfield]

The most obvious trigger would be a lack of foodplant. For an essentially continuously brooded insect, mass movement when there is no sustenance for the next generation makes sense. Day length strikes me as less probable as this varies enormously across the European range, from Spain to the Arctic Circle (though not so much around the equinox I suppose).

Guy

[Neil Hulme]

Hi all,
It is widely believed that there is no historical evidence of a southerly emigration of Painted Ladies from the UK. This is not strictly true (see below), although it is limited in extent, until this year.

' "Do you see where some of those butterflies are going? - they're flying straight out to sea towards France?" And so we kept a very careful watch, and every now and then a Red Admiral or a Painted Lady would come fluttering across the beach, fly once or twice up and down the edge of the water where the waves were lapping the shingle, and then they would suddenly seem to make up their minds and turn sharply southwards and fly straight on over the water until we lost sight of them for good.' From 'Talking of Butterflies Moths & other fascinating Insects' by L. Hugh Newman (1946).

The trigger for a southerly movement is most probably day length. There is current speculation about a return flight at altitude, which of course would go largely un-noticed. They may also fly through darkness (as they will do on the inward trip) and I have heard several reports of them coming to moth traps, about the time that the UK population started to wane.

Although they are not 'set up' to hibernate as some of our residents are ('over-wintering' is a more appropriate terminology), they may well be programmed to search out suitable sites in which to 'close down' periodically, when cooler weather dictates. In a recent cold snap I watched one fluttering, slowly and determinedly, around the eves of my house, in precisely the same way that e.g. Small Tortoiseshells often do, prior to hibernation.
Neil

[Gruditch]

Check this out.

http://iberianature.com/britainnature/t ... migration/

maybe I convinced him when we saw him the other day Pete.

Regards Gruditch

[Gruditch]

No this ones better as there using my pickie.


http://www.birdguides.com/webzine/article.asp?a=1813

Regards Gruditch

[Padfield]

Check this out.

http://iberianature.com/britainnature/t ... migration/

maybe I convinced him when we saw him the other day Pete.

Regards Gruditch

I saw that report, Gruditch. It still seems to me the mystery isn't fully solved, though. We know they do head south - and as Kipper says, we have always had the suspicion they did this, but never more than essentially anecdotal evidence before now. But what happens to them next? Do they die off failing to get to Africa? Do they stop half way down and overwinter somewhere in Europe? Just because butterflies have been seen in the Mediterranean moving south to Africa (Susie's reports) it doesn't mean ours get there.

It would be interesting to have the records for overwintering in Europe. I can certainly get them for Switzerland - that is, I can find out if painted ladies have been recorded there in February or March. My own records are from May onwards - I've never seen any evidence at all of overwintering.

It looks as though you lot in the UK have done your job - now it's up to those of us in the rest of Europe to provide some data!

Guy

EDIT: It's supposed to be hot and sunny all day today in the Rhône Valley, so that's where I shall be. I'll see if there are any stragglers... It's over a month since I last saw a painted lady.

[Gruditch]

But what happens to them next?

Guessing, I recon that if a PL left the UK in mid August, then it would be unlikely that the same PL would be crossing the Med in November. I think judging by the timing, its another brood born in France / Spain that makes the final journey.

Regards Gruditch

[Susie]

If it is possible that painted ladies could over winter here then it is even more important to ensure that nectar sources are available for them during the winter months.

Do painted ladies ever feed from rotten fruit in the same way that comma, speckled wood or red admiral do?