Help!!! want a dlsr...

[AmandaUK]

Hello
I have a fugifilm s5700. but I would love a DSLR, I wanted to ask hat sort of camera do you all use? I need one that I can take pictures of flowers and butterflies. I don't have a clue, just bought a DSLR magazine that has reviewed 24 cameras at different prices.

please help!!
AManda

[NickB]

AmandaUK, welcome!
There are as many views on this as there are brands and owners....
It depends on how much you want to spend and what degree of use you intend to make of the equipment you buy
Canon, Nikon, and Sony Alpha are commonly used here; but there are other entrants - Panasonic with their 4/3rds system for instance. These all have lower end so-called consumer models and then semi-professional and professional models.
These run from a few hundred pounds to a few thousand!
Kit lenses and so-called consumer lenses can deliver good results in terms of image quality, but for specialist close-up work there are only a few options. One commonly used here is the dedicated prime Sigma 150mm f2.8 Macro lens (though Nikon 105mm and Sigma 105mm and Tamron 90mm are also used.) Another way is to use extension tubes on a large zoom or telephoto lens - effectively bringing the focal point closer to you and blurring the background. A third is to use an add-on adapter lens in front of a normal lens to magnify the image.
Lenses run from under £100 for some of the kit lenses to anywhere from £330 to around £900 for a macro prime; adapter lens can be found for under £50 and extension rings (tubes) are about £120 for a set.

What are your expectations from a camera and how much time do you intend to devote to butterfly as opposed to general-purpose photography?

N

[Rogerdodge]

Amanda
Welcome to the site.
I can echo most of what Nick has said.
If you look at the various photos on this site, you will see dreadful ones and mind-blowing ones taken with the identical camera/lens set up.
Buying any of the modern DSLRs will give you the tools to take first class photographs.
By far the most important factor in taking outstanding images is the photographer.
So, go for Canon, Nikon, Olympus or Sony and you have equipment that is capable of taking excellent photographs. They are all good cameras, and only the most picky will find much to choose between them.
Choose a good, prime, Macro lens and you have ticked all the boxes (100 is great for flowers, but a bit "close" for butterfies, 180 is great for butterflies, but a bit distant for flowers. 150 seems ideal)
Then read all you can (scan the photography forum here for great info), practise, practise and put your efforts up here for constructive criticism. You will end up taking excellent shots.
Read this thread- http://www.ukbutterflies.co.uk/phpBB2/v ... f=7&t=3333 and you will gather some really good advice.
Let us know which set-up you are considering.
Good luck, and don't get disheartened if your first efforts are not brilliant - practise will help.

[eccles]

I would only add to the previous comments by saying having drawn up a short list based on your budget and features that you think you'll want, go down to your local camera dealer and play with as many of them as they'll let you have a go at. This is because the handling can be quite different between them, and what feels right for one person is wrong for another. And as already suggested, be aware that buying just a camera with kit lens doesn't stop there as you'll most likely want to add capability with additional lenses such as telephoto or macro.
If you want to know what's out there www.dpreview.com gives in depth reviews of most of the mainstream models.

[Rogerdodge]

Eccles is right - handling the actual camera is very inportant.
I, for example, cannot get on with the XX0D Canons as they are too small for my hands. The X0D ones are ideal, whilst the XD ones are too big for my camera bags (and wallet!!).
It is vital to try it with the correct lens attached as well. The "kit" lenses are usually pretty light and short, and feel very different when the weight and length of a 150mm or 180mm Macro lens is mounted on the body.
It is also vital to try to use at least a monopod for best results.
HTH

[Pete Eeles]

Hi Amanda,

Rather than jumping to conclusions - I have some basic questions that will help the very helpful members here answer your question.

I have a fugifilm s5700. but I would love a DSLR

Why? What do you think a DSLR is going to help you with?

I need one that I can take pictures of flowers and butterflies.

Can't the "fugifilm s5700" do that?

I ask these questions because you're heading toward the "slippery slope" that quite a few of us are on - and much poorer for

Cheers,

- Pete

[AmandaUK]

wow, thank you for all your replies.
If I do decide to get a DSLR then I would want the live view, especially for butterflies. Did have a look a 2 cameras on saturday, I think the first one was the Nikon d60. this was very heavy and didnt have the live view, so that one is a definate no.
also had a quick look at the cannon 1000d which was nicer to hold and had the live view. All those buttons,
only really use super macro and auto setting on my fugifilm.. so don't know how i'm going to get one with a DSLR

I will try and upload my pictures from saturday, I just feel that my fugifilm isn't giving me the best, this could be that I'm not using the camera to its best..
also in september I'm going a camera club, I love my pictures but would love to more. really would be using the camera really for day trips and keep the fugifilm for general use.

going to load my pictures.. please comment on them
amanda

[NickB]

... and didnt have the live view, so that one is a definate no. amanda

Why do you see Live-view as a deal-clincher? I am not aware that it makes a lot of difference to butterfly work - but then that's just me; what do the other's think...?

N
Any move from a compact to DSLR will be a steep learning curve; I know - 6 years ago I bought my first digital camera; then 2 years later - the next, a so-called Bridge camera (1/2way house to DSLR) and then 2 years later a DSLR.

As Pete said - Beware - it IS a slippery slope to financial ruin - but you WILL end up with some great kit

[m_galathea]

I wouldn't ever want live-view on a DSLR. Recently I borrowed a mates Canon 450D and found the live-view pretty rubbish and spent almost all my time using the viewfinder. I like DSLRs for their speed of use and live-view (at least on the 450D) took that away somewhat.

It sounds to me Amanda that you'd be best off saving your money and buying a decent compact - you can buy one that will allow you full manual control and get some lovely butterfly photographs.

Alexander

[AmandaUK]

I think for the live view,thats what I use with my fugifilm and thats how i take my pictures, with the live view you can see what your taking at a distance, and then able to get close enough without disturbing the object that I'm trying to take a picture of.
this definately needs a lot of thinking about and I wont be rushing out to buy anything.. has to be right
amanda

[NickB]

I wouldn't ever want live-view on a DSLR. Recently I borrowed a mates Canon 450D and found the live-view pretty rubbish and spent almost all my time using the viewfinder. I like DSLRs for their speed of use and live-view (at least on the 450D) took that away somewhat.
It sounds to me Amanda that you'd be best off saving your money and buying a decent compact - you can buy one that will allow you full manual control and get some lovely butterfly photographs.
Alexander

I have Live View on my Nikon - but, I have never used it! Maybe OK if you want to compose a scene using a tripod, but the viewfinder is quick and easy I find (and you need to be quick!)...
The fugifilm s5700 doesn't look too bad an entry-level super-zoom (similar to my old Minolta). Image quality isn't so hot from the reviews and I guess this is what you want to improve. And here is the choice - learning to use a DSLR (and if you are serious about photography I would urge you to bite the bullet and go this way) or taking a high-end compact.....

The DSLR route should certainly solve the Image Quality problem but other bridge and modern compacts would do that too. Sony and Panasonic are two that come to mind - tho' be careful to make sure that their "macro" is close enough for butterfly work - "super-macro" is what you really need - or if you need to purchase an adapter to add to the front of the lens for that purpose. A top-end compact (with full manual control) can set-you back nearly as much as an entry-level DSLR, but will not need all the extra lenses (and expense!) There are plenty of UKB compact users who produce great images to give advice here...
Good luck
N

[m_galathea]

Consider the Canon G-series as well, they manage noise pretty well (not quite as well as their DSLRs but still good). Unfortunately they have done away with the rotating flip out screens that were sometimes quite useful in the older models such as the G6.

Be aware though that they do not fire as fast as DSLRs - I have taken some photos with a DSLR where the timing involved meant that a compact would have never got the shot. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages.

[Dave McCormick]

If I do decide to get a DSLR then I would want the live view, especially for butterflies. Did have a look a 2 cameras on saturday, I think the first one was the Nikon d60. this was very heavy and didnt have the live view, so that one is a definate no.

I thought live view would be good in a DSLR as I used it on my Samsung Digimax L85, but when I got the Canon 500D with live view, I ended up turning it off as it was not as good as looking through the viewfinder and because of the size of the camera, its not that easy to use the live view. I found it hard using the live view on video mode because the viewfinder does not work on that mode, so a viewfinder is much better, plus you get a more accurate view of what your shooting.

[Nigel G]

I would certainly agree with others that using the view finder is best but there are 2 situations were liveview may be useful. If your viewfinder doesn't give 100% coverage and composition is critical then liveview will show the full picture - but best used with manual focus as I find liveview AF pretty slow. Also if you are fortunate enough to have a flipout rotating screen you can sometimes get shots at angles others can't achieve - ie overhead or very low angle without having to lie in a puddle. Either way I wouldn't put liveview high on the list of priorities but it will probably now come as standard on most consumer models.

[Gruditch]

Hi Amanda, Live view is there on a DSLR, to attract people like yourself, moving from a compact. As far as the manufacturers are concerned, if it's already made you put Live view at the top of your must have list, then it's done it's job, and was well worth their investment. However in practise, just as the other guys have stated, it's a load of rubbish.

There are probably as many good reasons for not having a DSLR, as there are for having one. The weight, the expense, and the massive learning curve needed, are enough to put quite a few off making the jump.

If you want to get the best out of a DSLR, then bear in mind, they are not made to just go around using the auto functions. You will have to learn all about F stops, ISO, white balance, and most of us on here, use manual focus for Macro work. If none of this scares you, and money is not a problem, then get that DSLR.

Take a tour back through the Photography threads, and you will find plenty of heated debates, on similar themes to this one.

Regards Gruditch

[eccles]

I think as well as the relatively slow AF of live-view as a limiting factor, another is the fact that most DSLRs are significantly heavier than a compact. As a result, whilst holding a camera out at arm's length to frame the image will work reasonably well with a compact it won't work quite so well with a DSLR as you'll be more likely to get camera shake.
I know your thinking - using the super macro mode your compact has to get really close to the subject, say a butterfly, to get a decent magnification, therefore using the screen for framing means only the camera gets close and you're less likely to spook the butterfly. But with a DSLR you can use a lens with a longer focal length so that neither you nor the camera has to get so close. Possibly the main benefit of using a screen, particularly one that can flip out, is that you can put the camera in very awkward angles and tip the screen towards you to frame the subject. But in my case I cannot remember any missed shot that a simple angle finder, which is like a periscope that fits on the rear of the camera, has covered. Meanwhile, putting a long lens on my camera has enabled many, many shots that I would otherwise have missed.
If you absolutely must have live-view, check out the Sony 300/330/350/380 models. These use an interesting method of dealing with such problems of focussing speed and camera shake by incorporating a secondary sensor and in-body image stabilisation. But be warned, the use of a secondary sensor compromises viewfinder image size and brightness significantly, so if you find later that using a viewfinder is better after all you're worse off than other models in the Sony or other manufacturers' ranges. I believe that once most people experience a proper optical viewfinder then they will quickly abandon using the screen for nearly all instances.
I would look out for deals involving last year's models as there is often a considerable mark up on the latest ones and precious little improvement in actual photo quality.
And I make no apologies for repeating: DO try several makes and models out before buying.

[AmandaUK]

Thank you eccles, some good points there especially about the live view.. I wasn't seeing the camera that way, but your right after the lens is on then I wouldn't need live feed.
I will go back and look at the other topics on here.

many thanks to everyone that replied
amanda

[NickB]

Deleted

[NickB]

... this was very heavy amanda

Amanda, if you thought that a D60 was heavy, just wait until you have added a kilo or so of lens!
Most people here with DSLRs use some sort of support ...
( not for the hernia caused by carrying it around all day )...
...in the form of a mono-pod or tripod when doing butterfly work - you should perhaps also build that into your thinking...

(Even those with VR (Vibration Reduction) lenses or cameras will admit that a better image is obtained if you start with a stable image)
N

[FISHiEE]

I have live view on my 50D but would never take anything other than a tripod mounted shot with it, and only then to check depth of field (as it's way better than the standard depth of field preview button as it adjusts the brightness so you can actually see something and you have 10x zoom to see that you really have got the focus/depth of field spot on). AF in live on anything other than a static shot is pretty much useless. Additionally you're never going to be able to hold the camera anything like stable enough for a macro shot with the camera held away from you to view the screen so your shots will all be out of focus and have bad camera shake!

Having said the above I've not actually bothered to turn live view on for a static tripod setup since the first day I played with it, but then I guess I know how to use my camera well enough to not have to check the depth of field etc. For a beginner however it'd be an excellent way to see live how camera settings effect the image but using it would be an excellent way to experiment with camera settings and see instantly on the live view screen how depth of field, colours, sharpness etc. change. I wouldn't bother pressing the shutter button often using it though

One thing you'll quite possibly find moving from a compact to a DSLR is initially your photos will not be so good but as you learn and your skills grow they can potentially be far superior. Auto mode does help but there comes a point where you will need to switch that off to get better.

I'll probably get a few flames for this, but you can be relatively lax with your compact and get quite good shots (due in part to never really having to worry much about depth of field, camera shake etc. with a tiny sensor). A DSLR will highlight both great and poor camera skill in equal measures and even more so with the latest highest resolution DSLR's. Even moving from my old 8MP DSLR to my current 15MP one it's quite a significant jump. More shots where the imperfections previously weren't visible now stand out, but at the same time, the ones where I get everything right are OMGJC wow!!