moving holly blue eggs at christmas?

[Dave McCormick]

I am not 100% sure where to post this, so I will post it here for now.

I have been thinking. Looking over this year and how the holly blue has expanded its range in some places and been seen more, would people buying holly reaths with holly/ivy on it have the chance of having a holly blue egg on it? The holly/ivy does come from growing plant and that plant might have the chance of having an egg on it, just a thought I have had and wondered if it were true at all.

[Pete Eeles]

Hi Dave,

The Holly Blue overwinters as a pupa. Also, the second generation feed on ivy and not holly (in the main).

Cheers,

- Pete

[Shirley Roulston]

I can understand the Holly Blue not being on the holly leaves because the flowers of the holly are out very early. So, the ivy flowers are out late for the second brood of the butterfly and studying the photo on the uk photos where the list is on the home page, the pupa is small and brown. My question is where do I look in the ivy, on the leaf or under it, or maybe deep in the bush of the ivy. Has anyone got anymore photos of this little pupa? Thanks
Shirley

[Pete Eeles]

From "The Butterflies of Britain and Ireland" - Thomas and Lewington:

"No one, to my knowledge, has every found a Holly Blue chrysalis in the wild, but its speckled brown colour and strong ant-attracting capabilities make it likely to that pupation occurs on or near the ground, where it is probably attended by ants". Here's a photo of a pupa that I'm keeping safe until spring:

IMG_3265.jpg (54.11 KiB) Viewed 600 times

Cheers,

- Pete

[KeynvorLogosenn]

so, erm what do these pupa look like?
I have never seen one before anyway, so I have no tangible memories to relate to.
I am guessing that these would be really small?
Thanks
Em

[Shirley Roulston]

To Pete,
Having read on the home page about the Holly Blue caterpillar eating the inside of the buds of the ivy and a tell tale sign is the empty shells, so could possibly, first find the empty shells and not to far away just could be the pupa which what I search for to-day and found nothing. After all how far can a little caterpillar crawl surely not that far. the search is now on.Shirley

[Pete Eeles]

Good point Shirley!

The larva I reared through has a definite "girdle" - implying that they do secure themselves when required. For me - that would suggest a location in a crevice somewhere, rather than being buried. But perhaps those that are buried (potentially) still secure themselves to minimise movement.

Also - the larva may reach the ground and then travel several metres from its foodplant. The only species that I know burrows as soon as they hit the ground is the Lime Hawkmoth, whose pupae can be easily unearthed around the trunks of lime trees. I used to search them out as a kid in central Cheltenham - one year I managed to find 87!

Cheers,

- Pete

[Shirley Roulston]

I think this sort of search is like looking for a bird nest, you don't want to disturb it or touch the eggs but when you find one which is usually accidently it's really thrilling. The pupae in my poly tunnel I think something is getting them, there were loads a couple of months but not so many now.
Shirley

[Cotswold Cockney]

Caterpillars, even small ones like Holly Blues and Brown Hairstreaks can and do travel relatively long distances when fully fed and settling down for pupation. Invariably leaving the bushes when doing so # this based on captive breeding stocks.

Back in the 1970s when I bred numbers of both species ( Hollies from Mid-May ova ) in my large greenhouse, both fully fed larvae left their growing foodplants and travelled as far as the greenhouse limits allowed before pupating. I expected them to pupate on or near their potted plants but that was my mistake .... they travel some distance to pupate. Soon after I found Brown Hairstreak pupae under some of the paving slabs on the floor of my greenhouse. Because one or two slabs had become uneven, when lifting them to adjust their levels it was then that I discovered a few hairstreak pupae. Otherwise I would have been none the wiser.

The Gravid Female Holly Blue usually selects only those flowers on the Female Holly Bushes in the spring for her ova. The little larvae may first feed on the white Holly Flowers but these soon wither and die so they move to the developing green Holly Berries to feed up on. The male Holly Bushes also have white flowers but I have rarely found Holly Blue ova on them .... just the odd one or two ~ dozens on nearby Holly Bushes with female flowers.

By coincidence, when working on my car back in the summer, I stood up to relieve my old back and as I did so, noticed some Holly berries showing signs of nibbles on a nearby branch. The Holly Blue was numerous in my garden this past poorish summer. I soon located some half grown holly blue larvae on some of the berries and took a few pictures. There are two in the picture ~ can you spot them?



When my son ( now aged 24 ) was quite small, he asked me if I was breeding the Death's Head Hawk again this year. I was not. When I asked why he mentioned this, he explained that there was a large specimen on the OUTSIDE of one of my breeding cages in the greenhouse. He was right ~ on checking the greenhouse cages I found the largest specimen of a female Death's Head Hawk I have ever seen or bred! The previous year I had bred a few and got a few pairings and fertile ova which I passed on to friends.

So how did it get there. Did it fly in? Unlikely. Later I was to discover an empty DHH pupal case in its chamber in the compost of a foodplant pot in the greenhouse ~ which explained the Moth's appearance the following summer. My greenhouse is never heated and I have known the temperature in there in winter to drop to -22 degrees C... which it did in winter 1981-2. Based on this observation, I would not be surprised if this magnificent moth is sometimes able to survive our UK winter as a pupa under certain locations and weather conditions.....

Finally, these larvae need to spin a silk pad and girdle to anchor themselves when about to pupate otherwise they would have much difficulty shedding the old larval skin ~ anyone who has witnessed this process will see that much energy and wriggling is required to complete the process. That would not be possible if the pupa was not secured firmly on that silk and would result in a malformed pupa and failed emergence..
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[Shirley Roulston]

I can see them but only that you told me they were there. No searching to-day its freezing, I am going to buy a small torch and search the crevices-- just to see where they are hiding.
Shirley

[Cotswold Cockney]

Good point Shirley!

The larva I reared through has a definite "girdle" - implying that they do secure themselves when required. For me - that would suggest a location in a crevice somewhere, rather than being buried. But perhaps those that are buried (potentially) still secure themselves to minimise movement.

Also - the larva may reach the ground and then travel several metres from its foodplant. The only species that I know burrows as soon as they hit the ground is the Lime Hawkmoth, whose pupae can be easily unearthed around the trunks of lime trees. I used to search them out as a kid in central Cheltenham - one year I managed to find 87!

Cheers,

- Pete

Haha ~ when large English Elm Trees were a common sight in our countryside, searching behind loose bark turned up Lime Hawk Pupae. To find a large English Elm in recent years would be very difficult..... beautiful trees

Funny you should mention Cheltenham. Few years ago, walking near GCHQ Benhall, I spotted a fully grown Lime Hawk larva crawling down the trunk of a large ornamental cherry tree at the side of a Park. It had already turned brown as they do just prior to pupation. So, looks like you can add Cherry leaves as another larval foodplant for this beautiful moth.

Another unusual Cheltenham Butterfly observation ~ on 1st January 1974 in Clarence Street near the town centre, a strong flying Red Admiral.
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